Archive for July, 2009

Supreme Court Judgments – Known and Unknown – Suppressed and Exposed – Implemented and not!

July 16, 2009
Supreme Court Judgments – Known and Unknown – Suppressed and Exposed – Implemented and not!
Published on November 21st, 2007 In Uncategorized, Blogging, Philosophy, Politics | Views 291 <!– by Vedaprakash –>

Supreme Court Judgments – Known and Unknown – Suppressed and Exposed – Implemented and not!

The following is the Supreme court Order appearing in “Panchajanyam” (November 2007 issue, p.no5):



TEM No.MM-6
COURT NO.1

S U P R E M E  C O U R T  O F  I N D I A RECORD OF PROCEEDING 112004 WRIT PETITION (CIVIL) NO (s) 564 of 2007

SWAMI GOVINDA RAMANUJA                                                              Petitioner (s)

VERSUS

UNION OF INDIA Date 05/10/2007

This Petition was mentioned today.

CORAM HON’BLE THE CHIEF JUSTICE

HON’BLE MR. JUSTICE R. V. RAVINDRAN.

For Petitioner (s)                                      Petitioner –in-person For Respondents

UPON hearing counsel the Court made the following ORDER Heard the petitioner, who appeared, in person. He apprehends that the disciples / followers of Lord Sri Rama are being attacked inthe Stae of Tamil Nadu and he wants a direction to be issued to theChief Secretary of the State of Tamil Nadu to give protection to them.The petitioner would be a liberty to move the High Court in accordancewith law. The petitioner states that he is afraid to go to the High Court of Madras as he is likely to be physically manhandled by some interested people. Learned Advocate General for the State of Tamil Naduis present in Court and he affirms that all protection would be givento the  petitioner in case if he wants to approach the High Court of TamilNadu. The Writ Petition is disposed of accordingly. The petitioner would inform the City Police Commissioner of Chennai and seek protection. In case such a request is made, the City Commissioner would consider the same and give necessary protection to him to file the requisite petition and prosecute the same before the High Court of Judicature at Madras. He shall be given requisite protection so that he may not be manhandled or attacked by any miscreants.
Sd-Sd-
(G. V. Ramana)                                                                                          (Veera Varma)

Court Master                                                                                                Court Master

Swami Govinda Ramanuja has filed the Writ Petition and argued himself in the Hon’ble Supreme court for 45 minutes. The wording of the judgment clearly expposes the weakness of the vulnerable believers like Hindus in India. The Chief Justice Mr. K. G. Balakrishnan and Justice Mr. R. V. Ravindran were present. He has been the petitioner in the case of demolition of thousand-pillars mantap on Tirumala by the High Court of A. P. Government.

However, the entire print and electronic media has purposely suppressed it and totally blacked out. The much-publicized Tehelka, perhaps, sleeping in its secular maya enjoying the “minority”-nidhra!

In fact, it exposes the vulnerability of believers of Rama in the State of Tamilnadu in secular India. The Judgment has been so specific and it exposes the defenselessness and dangerous condition of Hindus, though, they have been the majority of India.

Ironically, all human rights and other harbingers of rights of men, women, children etc., have been absconding whenever such events take place.

VEDAPRAKASH

21-11-2007

Advertisements

Karunanidhi, Jaggi Vasudev and Sankaracharya – A Comparitive Study of contemporary events in Indian Secular context

July 16, 2009
Karunanidhi, Jaggi Vasudev and Sankaracharya – A Comparitive Study of contemporary events in Indian Secular context
Published on November 13th, 2007 In Uncategorized, Blogging, Philosophy, Politics | Views 2915 <!– by Vedaprakash –>

Karunanidhi, Jaggi Vasudev and Sankaracharya

karu-as-nataraja

Atheism, Religion and Politics of “Spirituality”: The attitude of Karunanidhi, a sworn atheist and surprisingly heading a State of Secular India perplexes in any aspect – politically, socially, and psychologically. His mind-set towards Hindu religion, Hindu Gods and Goddesses, Hindu scriptures, Hindu rituals, rites and ceremony has been also intriguing, as he has been passing only sarcastic, caustic and venomous remarks, comments and criticism, whether it is warranted or wanton. The just-past events make Indians to view the inconsistencies, contradictions or inexplicable things crept into similar events but dealt with differently by various people, authorities and others involved. How and why the rulers behave with one group of religious believers in one particular way, whereas with other, they act differently? Is there any selective atheism that one should believe in one god but blaspheme other god? Is there any spirituality that trees [planted by one would grow and planted by others wither away?

Karunanidhi -Tirupati priests

Appeasement or expiation? He called the Grama-pujaris ( Village Temple priests) as “Pandarams, Paradeshis” and so on, but participated in the Conference organized by VHP in Madurai. After coming to power, ironically, he activated the Board for them (in early 2007), obviously to appease them, expiate or repent for the sins committed, if at all, he is believed in it. More irony is the “thanks-giving” functions organized by Gramapujarigal Peravai, a VHP affiliated organization. In fact, though the board was set up in 2001, it did not function in the last five years. S.Vedantham, the Managing Trustee of the Board, who met the Chief Minister (as reported by the Hindu 24-12-2006) brought this to the notice of the non-functioning and he agreed to do the needful.Hindu organisations, led by the Vishwa Hindu Parishad, had thus succeeded in getting the demands of lakhs of Grama Koil Poojaris (village temple priests) fulfilled at last when M. Karunanidhi cleared on January 13, 2007, the proposal to constitute a welfare board for village priests in the state. The board is a social security measure for priests of village temples not coming under the Hindu Religious and Charitable Endowments department that administers bigger temples. A few weeks before the state government’s announcement, VHP leaders including its international vice president Shri. S. Vedantam and state youth wing organiser Shri. R.R. Gopaljee met the Chief Minister to press the VHP demand in favour of Grama Koil Poojaris.

Arrest of Jayendra

The Arrest of Sankaracharya in 2004: On the Deepavali eve in November 2004, Sankaracharya was arrested. Karunanidhi, the arrest in a murder case as an “honest and commendable action.” He hoped that the law would be allowed to take its course without interference. Addressing a press conference here, he said though it could not be denied that the All-India Anna Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam Government had “close links with the Sankara Mutt,” its head was arrested. A fast, planned by the DMK and its allies at Kancheepuram demanding the arrest of the Sankaracharya, was not necessary, thanks to the police action, he said.  Karunanidhi said the arrest episode reminded him of the saying, “if a virtuous woman commits a sin she can cleanse herself by having a dip in the Ganges but where will she go seeking atonement if the holy river itself is polluted?” The atheist and secular CM does not apply the same yardstick to all!

Jaggi with his wife Krishnakumari

Karunanidhi kept quite when Jaggi Vasudev was charged with murder in 1997: The following is the Indian Express report as appearing on October 12, 1997 about Police registering a case of murder by Jaggi Vasudev:

Coimbatore, Oct, 11: Close on the heels of scandals relating to fake godmen getting exposed, yet another ashram from Coimbatore is in the limelight with Jaggi Vasudev aliash Jagadeesh of Isha Yoga ashram at Poondi near Coimbatore, being charged with the murder of his wife Viji alias Vijayakumari.A team of police personnel recently visited the premises of Isha Ashram at poondi and interrogated the inmates of the ashram. Godman Jaggi is away in the US.According to police, T. S. Ganganna of Bangalore (father of Viji) had preferred a complaint with the Bangalore Police suspecting foul play in the death of his daughter Viji. The complaintant had stated that his daughter left him last on June 15, 1996. He reportedly received a message on January 23, 1997, from Jaggi Vasudev, stating that Viji was no more.Ganganna said that Jaggi Vasudev had hurriedly completed the cremation on Jan.24 even before they could rush from Bangalore, raising suspicion about the nature of death. He suspected death due to poisoning or strangulation.According to him, Jaggi Vasudev could have caused the death of Viji to facilitate his illicit relationship with yet another inmate of the ashram. Based on the complaint of Ganganna to the Bangalore City Police on Aug. 12, a case was registered.The Bangalore City Police transferred it to the Coimbatore Rural Police.The Coimbatore Rural Police have registered a case against Jaggi Vasudev under Section 302 of IPC (murder) and IPC 201 (suppression of evidence).Later. Isa Yoga Foundatrion has denied reports that Jaggi Vasudev had fled to USA to avoid investigation of ashram. Authorised Signatory of Ashram Kiran stated that Guruji had gone for giving lectures . ENS

Jaggi charged with murder

But nothing is known to the Public or citizens of Tamilnadu or Karnatka. Incidentally, just after the arrest of Sankaracharya, a Catholic priest was arrested in Kanyakumari area for murder, rape etc., Though, initially reports appeared in newspapers, totally there was silence in the media. In fact, about Jaggi nothing came in any TV-Channel, as compared to wide, prolonged and repeated coverage of Sankarachrya. No eminent writer, actress or any other complained or gave interview in SUN or UDAY TV. And Karunanidhi – oh, it did not concern at all. He never comented after reading newspaper said the episode reminded him of the saying, “if a virtuous woman commits a sin she can cleanse herself by having a dip in the Ganges but where will she go seeking atonement if the holy river itself is polluted?” Why, obviously. Because, Jaggi was not arrested! No agitation announced urging the government to arrest. On November 13, 2002, he said laws should be enacted to curb fake godmen mushrooming. Those who introduced such laws must have a progressive outlook and a commitment to rid society of superstition. Awareness should be created among the people to end frauds committed in the name of god, religion and spirituality. The heads of mutts should not misuse religious symbols to cover up their wrongdoings, he said. “We wish that the trial is conducted in a fair manner without any interference. Let us wait and see how things take their course” was his reply to a question on apprehensions raised, considering the Sankaracharya”s “political influence.” On reports of persons holding high offices visiting the Mutt to show their proximity to the Sankaracharya, Mr. Karunanidhi said it was unfair that constitutional functionaries such as the President were made to stand before religious heads. How then, he accommodated a charge-sheeted and murder accused person, sat with him? Before Indian law also, like Karunanidhi, the Saints are discriminated by religion ad ideology? Can the Law and judiciary be ideologized? NYes, naturally, wjen atheist or Communist or Communalist Judges are appointed by the Politicians, how they would deliver judgments?

Karunanidhi supporting Jaggi - 2012

Karunanidhi urges ascetics to follow Jaggi Vasudev’s lead 2007: The nation and the world would be better off, if all the ascetics follow the path shown by Jaggi Vasudev, founder of Isha Foundation, in environmental protection, Chief Minister M. Karunanidhi said on 24-09-2007. Addressing a function organised by the foundation to mark its 25th anniversary, he said he always held in high esteem the religious leaders such as Kundrakudi Adigal and his successor for their service to Tamil. He respected Sri Jaggi Vasudev for his effort at planting of saplings. He preferred ascetics who strove for social uplift to those who focused only on religion. Those who talked of religion alone issued fearsome threats and imprecation, the Chief Minister said, presiding over the launch of a campaign for planting of 2.5 crore saplings. http://www.thehindu.com/2007/09/24/stories/2007092454470500.htmD.R. Karthikeyan, former Director, Central Bureau of Investigation, referred to the agrarian crisis in different parts of the country and said insurance cover and remunerative prices would solve the problems of farmers. Launching the green campaign, Kanimozhi, Member of Parliament, said religion was meant for elevating people, not to divide them. Sudha Raghunathan, musician and devotee of Sri Jaggi Vasudev, welcomed the gathering. They never cared for Jaggi’s involvement.The speech of Karunanidhi during the Silver jubilee function of Isha Yoga Maiyam held at the grounds of Anna University on 23rd September had been interesting to note, as on the same day so many other things were going on. This is given, because, “The Hindu” had given only edited version. “The tree-planting activity has been going on and I get an opportunity to participate. I can understand the love of people in the service of tree plantation who have come from hamlets and villages, which is possible because of the hard work of Karttikeyan and efforts of  Sathguru. I can feel about the attraction of Sathguru”s advice and gracious words reaching hamlets. There have been many Turaviyar. I breathe out with emotion how this land, why any land would have grown with this type of hermits. I had immense regard for the great Hindu saint Kundrakkudi Adigalar. The reason is that he nurtured Tamil. As the present pontiff also works for the Tamil development, I have contact with him. Sathuguru does not grow religion. I love him because he grows trees. One may order to bring head, bring hand, bring tongue only, when he grows religion. But one can give excellent advice to people for good living, if he grows trees. Sathguru does that only. I was really taken aback that he could attract such a large gathering of  people. I feel happy also. It may appear very simple about planting trees now, but it would help for nation”s growth”.Last year, on 16-10-2006, the same type of function was organized. http://www.thehindu.com/2006/10/16/stories/2006101616890600.htm

Karunanidhi supporting Jaggi -tree planting- 2012

Jaggi reacts to Karunanidhi: On 29-09-2007, he reacted as follows on various subjects, including Ramasethu! “Only experts in ecology, heritage and economic aspects should decide what should happen there,” said Jaggi Vasudev, founder of the Isha Foundation, about the Ramar Sethu issue. In an interview to The Hindu he said: “This is not just about Ramar Sethu. (So Karunanidhi asked him to talk like that or his belief did so?) We are doing this all the time. Whether it is the titanium plant in Tamil Nadu or the car unit in Bengal, the SEZs somewhere else, we are trying to decide things on the streets. This is not the way to build a nation. These things must be decided by knowledgeable people, and those who are qualified to do that.”Religion and spirituality: Elaborating on the activities of the Foundation, he said its essential work was spiritual. “There is a very fundamental difference between religion and spirituality. When you say you belong to a certain religion, you naturally say that you are a believer. But the moment you say you are on a spiritual path, you are a seeker. A scientist is a seeker. In fact, they are in the same boat. One is seeking the outside realities. The other is seeking the inner realities.” Speaking on religion, Jaggi Vasudev said most religions probably started as a device for ultimate human well-being. “But these devices, over a period of time, are standing up like demons, ready to devour humanity. Whether they devour or not, they have definitely divided humanity. Unfortunately in a way you can’t unite, at least in the immediate span of time.”  Referring to the event held in Chennai recently, in which Chief Minister M. Karunanidhi participated, he points out that about 4.5 lakh people were present. “With no politics, no God, no enemy, you can’t gather so many people. But now, people are coming just to change their lives. We call it the silent revolution of self realisation.” On the Foundation’s involvement with the Tamil Nadu Government, he said, “For me, this does not mean an alignment with the Tamil Nadu Government or a particular party. People have honoured somebody with leadership. I have no business not to honour that.”‘Ethos of our culture’: The spiritual sciences were woven into the cultural fabric of India. And this science was expressed in the story form because India is a dialectical culture. Somewhere along the way, a few generations dropped the science and carried just the stories. Stories without science get exaggerated to ridiculous levels, he said.  “People should dare to look at life through current intelligence. That has been the ethos of this culture. There is no one book, one belief system we should follow. People can create their own gods. The god-making industry exists only in India and it’s fantastic. Nobody’s interested in God. People think God is a free ticket to well-being. People are interested in well-being.”

Karunanidhi -Hindu thief-- 2013

How Reverence changes from Jaggi to Sankaracharya? The repeated addressing of Jaggi as “Jagathdguru” is interesting in the context, as everybody knows, generally, it refers to Sankaracharya. But he never showed any such reverence to any Sankaracharya. How then, his sudden reverence to “Jaggi”? Of course, he has explained his own yardstick of measuring and assessing Turavis and Samiyars. He can only assess and judge them. Therefore, a dangerous situation is created in Tamilnadu, where certain religious leaders or Gurus are set against other religious Gurus and heads. Here, the religious Heads and Gurus should ponder over what they are upto? Karunanidhi as a CM may threaten them with HR C ” E Act for dire consequences. But, against the God, believers and scriptures, could they stoop down to such a mean level? Can they cheat their devotees and followers?

Hindus are thieves, bandits, barbarians, etc: Some years back in 2002, Karunanidhi drew the ire of some sections when he called Hindus “thieves”. “Do Hindus have a religion? Who is a Hindu? If you ask some right thinking people they’ll say that Hindu actually means a thief. I do no consider that to be a despicable thief, but a thief who has stolen the hearts,” He had stated while addressing a public meeting in 2002 organised by Muslim and Christian outfits to protest the anti-conversion ordinance of the then Jayalalithaa Government. Later, he reportedly clarified that he had merely quoted from a Hindi Encyclopedia published from Varanasi. “It had defined a Hindu as cruel, servant and bandit. Nevertheless, I chose to ignore that definition and softened it to mean as thieves of hearts,” he said – http://www.indianexpress.com/story/219610.html. He could call Hindus “thieves, bandits” and so on. He can call their God Rama a “drunkard” and so on. But none could question him. Even historians and religious heads could support his stand! What sort of secularism or spirituality is followed in
India?

anti-hindu-karunanidhi

FIR filed against Karunanidhi, case registered against Karunanidhi, but case withdrawn by Karunanidhi: Indians may be having short memory, but what about Hindus? Perhaps, they do not bother about anything! Within five years, Karunanidhi wants to dispose off the case filed against him! What a great ruler! Read the following:

October 24, 2002 – Karunanidhi talks nonsense about Hindus. On November 14, 2003, the Government gave sanction to prosecute Karunanidhi. A chargesheet was also filed and the case was posted for trial. May 21, 2007- On verification on Balasubramaniam, an advocate came to know that on a memo filed by the Public Prosecutor based on a G.O the case had been withdrawn.

FIR against Karunanidhi for anti-Hindu remarksPress Trust of
India
http://www.expressindia.com/about/feedback.html?url=http://www.expressi\India.com/news/fullstory.php?newsid=16802″title=FIR%20against%20Karunanid\hi%20for%20anti-Hindu%20remarksPosted online: Thursday, November 14, 2002 at 1151 hours ISTUpdated: Thursday, November 14, 2002 at 1357 hours IST Chennai, November 14: Chennai police have registered an FIR against DMK President M. Karunanidhi for his recent alleged remarks against the Hindu community, police said on Thursday. The 14th Metropolitan Magistrate Paramaraj had on Wednesday directed police to investigate the complaint filed by one R. Premnath alleging that certain remarks by Karunanidhi had “hurt the sentiments of the Hindus”. The magistrate directed police to register a complaint and submit the preliminary investigation report within three weeks, police said.  Karunanidhi had allegedly made certain remarks against the Hindus at a conference organised in Chennai on October 24, 2002 by the Christian community to protest the anti-conversion law. Govt. withdraws case against Karunanidhi

Chennai, August 9, 2007: The Madras High Court today admitted a petition, challenging a Tamil Nadu Government order, withdrawing a case  against Chief Minister M Karunanidhi, relating to his alleged remarks  against Hindus. A Division Bench of Justice P K Misra and Justice R Banumathi admitted  the Public Interest Litigation and ordered notice, returnable by eight weeks, to Secretary to Public Department and DMK President M  Karunanidhi. In his PIL,Balasubramanian, an advocate, contended that on October, 2002, Karunanidhi made the remarks at a meeting with “a deliberate and malicious intention to hurt the sentiments of Hindus.” His client R Premnath, an advocate, filed a private complaint before a Metropolitan Magistrate. On November 14, 2003, the Government gave sanction to prosecute Karunanidhi. A chargesheet was also filed and the case was posted for trial. On  verification on May 21, 2007, he came to know that on a memo filed by  the Public Prosecutor based on a G.O the case had been withdrawn.

Contending that Karunanidhi after becoming Chief Minister rescinded the previous G.O by the present one, he said Karunanidhi had no locus standi to withdraw his own case. (Agencies)http://chennaionline.com/colnews/newsitem.asp?NEWSID=%7B2634CDA5-AF7F-4E\FB-BCC2-ED7CCAA28ECF%7D”CATEGORYNAME=TAMIL+NADUhttp://chennaionline.com/colnews/newsitem.asp?NEWSID=%7B2634CDA5-AF7F-4\EFB-BCC2-ED7CCAA28ECF%7D”CATEGORYNAME=TAMIL+NADUhttp://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/401200707161970.htm

It is said that no one should sit as a judge in his own case, but Karunanidhi does, because, he has been above Court, Act and rules. This has been a classical case proving that Karunanidhi does not respect law. So it is very dangerous to have such persons as rulers. Even Tiruvalluvar condemns such type of rulers. We do not know whether it is “Dravidian culture” or “Muslim culture”, or “Christian culture” he is following. Robert Clive and Warren Hastings had done such frauds. So can we say Karunanidhi follows them? Sir Isaac Newton has done it in condemning his enemy Leibniz. So can we say Karunanidhi followed Newton? Perhaps, that is why, he used to openly say and do it (We do what we say). No Court, no law nothing. Is it Hitlerism or otherwise? Or we call it “Karunanidhism” which may supercede all types fascism etc? When this is the position of a person occupying the highest chair, what would be the actions of his followers? Would they care for law or not? What would be position of people of Tamilnadu?

Ideologization of Judiciary and courts: The above discussion makes to think about the clear ideologization of Indian Judiciary and courts by the vested interests of Politicians. Here also, typically, the atheist, Communist, so-called minorities have been ganged up against one group. The Judges, Solicitor Generals, Public Prosecutors, ACGSCs, Councils and others at State and Central government level are blatantly nominated by the ruling parties with political and that too ideological affiliations. How then, they could give judgments against Rulers or their appointed masters? Above all, their ideology works at various levels satisfying their psycho-somatic needs. Indians may have to come out of this type of situation. The more irony is that a ruler can withdraw cases filed against himself! If that is the case, what about the cases filed against others? Perhaps, it is very easy. If a CM wants, he can arrest and put in jail ant religious leader or he can share with him in a dias and appreciate his work as divine”! Long live “atheist spirituality”!

VEDAPRAKASH

13-11-2007

Greetings for Deepavali or Vatican’s tactics for “Inculturation”?

July 16, 2009
Greetings for Deepavali or Vatican’s tactics for “Inculturation”?
Published on November 11th, 2007 In Uncategorized, Blogging, Philosophy, Politics | Views 373 <!– by Vedaprakash –>

Greetings for Deepavali or Vatican’s tactics for “Inculturation”? The Vatican could have just restricted to extending greetings on the eve of Deepavali to Hindus, instead of indulging in the propagandist tactics, linking it with conversion and so on. It is evident that the psyche of Vatican has been reeling under “guilty conscience”.

Vatican tells Hindus forced conversions impossible Reuters Posted online: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 at 0000 hrs IST ROME, November 5
The Vatican told Indians on Monday that it was impossible to forcibly convert anyone to another religion, amid accusations by Hindu activists that missionaries are pressuring poor Indians to adopt Christianity. The appeal comes as relations between the two communities are strained by attacks on Christians by Hindu activists in India seeking to stamp out what they see as forced conversions. “There can be no coercion in religion: no one can be forced to believe, neither can anyone who wishes to believe be prevented from doing so,” Cardinal Jean-Louis Tauran, who heads the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue, said in a message to Hindus for Diwali, the festival of lights. He said the Catholic Church had been faithful to the teaching on freedom of belief. Tauran urged both Hindus and Christians to focus on educating their communities, warning that the faithful could “so easily be misled by deceitful and false propaganda”. Tensions have flared between the two groups after several states governed by Hindu nationalists introduced or strengthened laws against what they see as forcible conversions. Christian groups say these laws are aimed at curbing religious freedom and against the Indian constitution. They have reported dozens of attacks on priests and Christian institutions over the past year by Hindu hardliners

Ø That even Deepavali greetings is linked with “conversion issue” proves the Vatican’s interest in “conversion” rather than stopping it.

Ø “…..it was impossible to forcibly convert anyone to another religion” is absurd when “Inculturation” and “Inter-religious” dialogues have been going on in the name of religion.

Ø “There can be no coercion in religion: no one can be forced to believe, neither can anyone who wishes to believe be prevented from doing so,” Cardinal Jean-Louis Tauran, who heads the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue, said in a message to Hindus for Diwali, the festival of lights. This is simply false, as Vatican knows very well what it does and asks the Cardinals, Bishops and others to do.


Ø That Cardinal said the Catholic Church had been faithful to the teaching on freedom of belief, has his own connotation in the said program. If their freedom of belief does not violate the freedom of belief of Hindus, then, it could be acceptable.

Ø To prove its sincerity and honesty, Vatican should apologize to Hindus what has already been in the name of“Inculturation” and “Inter-religious dialogue”.

Ø The spurious research should stop that goes on in the name of research. Already, Archbishops have been involved in manufacturing and fabricating evidences.

Ø The Responsible Heads at the top should be honest enough to advise others, otherwise not only the faithful could “so easily be misled by deceitful and false propaganda”, even others.

Ø It is again false to say that, “Tensions have flared between the two groups after several states governed by Hindu nationalists introduced or strengthened laws against what they see as forcible conversions”. As I have already pointed out in my earlier posting, “Divine scandal, Theological corruption and religious perversity or Untouchable Gods and Untouchables! “.

Ø The claim of the Christian groups that “….these laws are aimed at curbing religious freedom and against the Indian constitution” is again false and illegal. The Constitution never gives any guarantee for conversion, this is totally false. Remember, the propagandists very often claim that the Indian Constitution has been drfted by Ambedkar! Then can anybody think that Ambedkar allowed such provision in his Constitution? Why then the same Christians ape for the amendment of the Constitutional Presidential Order 1950? Why play double game?

Ø Their “reported dozens of attacks on priests and Christian institutions over the past year by Hindu hardliners” has been also false, why not they list of te Hindus killed by them in different parts of India?

Ø How the gullible, naïve and innocent Hindus allow themselves to get converted to Christianity and also attack the Christian priests? Ø
The sio-called Christian priests have been roaming as “Sanyasis” etc., imitating “Hindus” donning ochre robes, sporting saffron / red colour their foreheads, rudhraksha around their necks etc. So The Christians themselves could have done because of “mistaken identity”! Ø
Anyway, it is better to avoid such infringements. Masquerades and duplicities.


VEDAPRAKASH
12-11-2007

Historian’s interest, Tehelka’s sensation and Common-man’s response

July 16, 2009
Historian’s interest, Tehelka’s sensation and Common-man’s response
Published on October 27th, 2007 In Uncategorized, Blogging, News, Philosophy, Politics |  Views 541
Historian’s interest, Tehelka’s sensation and Common-man’s response

Historian’s Interest: Steve Farmer isHarvard University historian, working with Michael Witzel, friend of Romila Thapar and other Indian eminent historians. “The Hindu” of Chennai used to publish whatever they write but not that of other Indian historians. For example, Dr. R. Nagaswamy, the former Director of State Archaeology department, Dr. K. V. Raman, the former Head of Ancient History ” Archaeology, Madras University, Dr. K. M. Rao, the former Professor of Sociology, and others respond to them, but “the Hindu” did not publish.

As I have had experience with Steve Farmer, I want to respond. As I have also listened to and questioned Romila Thapar and other historians also during her lectures, I developed interest in history. Today morning, the Steve’s posting provoked me.

My experience with Historians: Therefore, I have no other way but to respond as common man. I am not an historian, but used to read history books, attend conferences and present papers. I follow them faithfully – the style sheet and methodology, irrespective of their ideology.

So here, in the context of Tehelka, I wonder what would or could be interest of American historian in the Indian politics, that too when Indian history has already been highly politicized.

Nowadays, a stage has reached that Indians have no right to read their history, but have to read what others write about them. They cannot point out the wrongs, blunders, mistakes containing in their writings, as immediately, they jump and ask, “What is your qualification”. If I say, “I am interested in history”, they retort, “Why your are interested in history?”

Previously, to become a member of Indian history congress, “just interest in history and age 18” were enough ( up to 1991). But, they amended the bye-laws that one should have “M. A degree in History or presented papers etc” as eligibility. Having presented papers, they tried another tactics by not including in the list, giving only 5 minutes for presentation including discussion and in the worst case, they order just “Read the title, you name and go” (as happened in the Madras session of IHC). This is how the sessions have been going on without any care or love for academic sessions in IHC or any HC.

Here is the posting of Steve Farmer, Harvard University historian:

Steve Farmer, the Harvard University historian writes in the Indo-Eurasian.yahoogroup as follows: Indo-Eurasian_research@yahoogroups.com

Important story in today”s Washington Post. Does anyone have further
data?

http://tinyurl. com/yvekmh

Steve
******
Hindus Detail Involvement In Deadly ‘02 Riots in India
On Video, Assailants Tell of State Collusion
By Rama Lakshmi
Washington Post Foreign Service
Friday, October 26, 2007;

NEW DELHI, Oct. 25 — Five years after one of India”s worst episodes
of Hindu-Muslim violence, a series of videotaped confessions released
Thursday showed Hindu activists acknowledging their roles in the
killings and detailing blatant state collusion.

In the video footage, recorded as part of an undercover exposé by a
New Delhi-based weekly magazine called Tehelka, Hindu activists and
politicians bragged about hacking Muslims to death and burning their
bodies. One assailant said he slit open a pregnant woman”s stomach.

The violence began in February 2002 when a Muslim mob torched a train
in India”s western Gujarat state, killing 58 Hindu passengers. Angry
Hindu groups launched a wave of reprisal killings and set fire to
Muslim homes and shops across the region. In all, an estimated 1,000
people died.

Human rights groups in India and the United States have charged that
Gujarat”s ruling party, the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party,
tacitly supported the mob violence against Muslims. Several thousand
cases related to the riots are still pending in Indian courts and
state inquiry committees.

At a packed news conference on Thursday, the editor of Tehelka, Tarun
Tejpal, released the magazine”s forthcoming issue, which contains 106
pages of coverage on the killings. Two national television channels
broadcast images that had been taken as part of the expos¿. In some
parts of Gujarat”s capital, Ahmedabad, where the issue of the riots
remains sensitive, cable operators reportedly switched off their
service to block stories on the subject.

“It is a very disturbing story; it is not a story you can take joy
from,” Tejpal told reporters. “There is a complete absence of remorse
in these confessions. The perpetrators of the violence have
themselves confessed to the crime. It is a story that makes me worry
about the kind of India we are living in.”

The video footage, by Ashish Khetan, a reporter for the magazine,
showed Hindu activists confessing to dousing petrified Muslims in
kerosene and burning them alive. The footage also showed a Hindu
nationalist politician saying that the chief minister of
Gujarat, Narendra Modi, had “given us three days time to do whatever we could.
After three days, he asked to stop and everything came to a halt.”

Modi has previously said the Hindu violence was a spontaneous
reaction to the attack on the trains.

A Hindu religious activist who has been accused of slitting open a
pregnant woman”s stomach said he showed Muslims “what kind of revenge
we can take if our people are killed.”

The disclosures come in the run-up to a December state election in
Gujarat, where the Bharatiya Janata Party is still in power. The
party”s spokesman in New Delhi, Prakash Javdekar, dismissed the
Tehelka story as a political conspiracy by the opposition Congress
party.

For many Muslim leaders, the video footage released Thursday did not
come as a surprise.

“None of these confessions are new to us. We have experienced all
this firsthand,” said Shakeel Ahmed, a legal activist in
Gujarat and
a member of the Association for the Protection of Civil Rights. An
application for a new investigation into the violence has been
pending in the Supreme Court for the past two years.

“But this will mount enormous moral pressure on the state government,
because the perpetrators themselves are admitting to the heinous
crimes,” Ahmed said. “Whether it will bring justice depends on
political will. Many of the accused are our rulers today. Who will
investigate them?”

Tehelka’s sensation: As I have already posted, I do not want to repeat.

Common man’s Response: Coming to the Steve’s posting, I have read it carefully several times. When I read Indian newspapers, it would take time to understand who did what on “another” and who is “the another” and why it was done on him / her and so on, because of the Indian secular journalistic ethics and tactics. Many times, we have to research into to the gender also. The Indian journalists have been so secular, so egalitarian so utopian following the Universalistic Constitution. There also, one has to read several times, in the context to understand what had happened to what and to whom and why. Any way, here Rama Lakshmi (whether she wrote voluntarily or otherwise or somebody wrote in her name and all, we do not know) has not troubled us.

But the report again appears to be motivated, as seen from such expressions used:

¹   Five years after one of India”s worst episodes of Hindu-Muslim violence Are Rama Lkashmi or Washington Post or Steve Farmer sure that no riot took place between 1947 and 2002? Or they want this to be glorified as “the worst episode” to be recorded in the modern history ignoring others?

¹   The violence began in February 2002 when a Muslim mob torched a train in
India”s western Gujarat state, killing 58 Hindu passengers. So, it would not come under the category of “riot”. Why “a Muslim mob” should kill, sorry torch “58 Hindu passengers”? Tehelka could have gone to investigate about the “a Muslim mob” to find out how many Muslims were there? Ashish Khetan alias Piyush Aggarwal could have been sent immediately for six-month sojourn, as Tarun has never been short of recourses. “Resources and time were no constraint, said Tarun”, as confessed by Ashish! As they have all capabilities, they could have done! But history works in different way – give importance to the present and forget the past.

¹   In all, an estimated 1,000 people died.Oh my God, what is this? Just I was appreciating Rama Lkshmi for being very open about the identity of “people killed / torched with kerosene etc”! Why then suddenly this generalization without giving religion or gender? Is this American secularism or a transition from Indian to American? What was that “an estimated 1000”, when everything was going on so modern with spy-cam and all? Are Tehelka, Rama Lkashmi, Washington Post are so weak in mathematics? Do one have to resort to DNA test to find out the gender? Or some other method to find out their religion?

¹   Several thousand cases related to the riots are still pending in Indian courts and state inquiry committees.“Several” is definitely more than one. I also used such expression and for me, it was 6 times to understand the nuances of the subject matter in all angles. So here, the minimum is 1000 cases, the next minimum is 2000 cases and of course “several” could include 3, 4, 5 times also, if not “many”! After all, had Sonia wanted, every day a case could have been taken up! And in this 2.7 years (1000/365), all cases could have been settled. The next is – 5.5 years (2000/365) – why then hurrying up? But, why the Sonia government was sleeping? Why all the human rights and other sensible activists could not understand the simple mathematics of dealing with “several 1000 cases” or with reasonably specific 1000, 2000 cases? It is ironical that even Navanethan Pillai could not have thought about it.

¹   cable operators reportedly switched off their service to block stories on the subject.But, I could watch from Madras many-many times throughout the night on 26th October and respond also in internet. When Asish and Tarun are roaming with spycams, how the cable operators could have been so barbaric by living in medieval period? NDTV-Ajtak clearly show that their reporters were roaming in the streets of Ahmedabad interviewing all without leaving anybody! When they “could get the confessions of killers”, is it so difficult in investigate the cable operators for the truth? In Tamil, we used to ask, “Er kathila pu suthreppa = for whose ears, you are garlanding? Garlanding or tying flowers around one’s ears is not so easy task without their yielding. Anyway, Asish has done!

¹   For many Muslim leaders, the video footage released Thursday did not come as a surprise.With my due condolence to the real happening to Hindus and Muslims, I request them not to politicize the issue with these type of creepy, sensational, thrilling, exiting – exposures going on in the name of freedom of expression, investigative journalism etc. If Muslims know the facts, the Hindus too know the facts, they can to indulge in this type of spy-cam journalism.

VEDAPRAKASH

27-10-2007

Tehelka video mixing and sound recording of horror and terror!

July 16, 2009
Tehelka video mixing and sound recording of horror and terror!
Published on October 26th, 2007 In Photography, Blogging, Movies, Politics | Views 1147 <!– by Vedaprakash –>

Tehelka video mixing and sound recording of horror and terror!

Ashish Khetan alias Piyush Aggarwal should be congratulated, if the shooting is real. Tehelka has been unfortunately known for biased against one particular Political party and one particular community. The methodology adopted and adapted by them raises many issues and questions. He says like this:“For six months, I remained a voyager between two worlds — my world, where I was Ashish Khetan, a journalist with a Catholic wife, a daughter with a French name and no fixed religion, and a host of Muslim and Christian friends. And then there was the other world, where I was Piyush Aggarwal, a member of the “Parivar”, a Hindu zealot, a religious fanatic, with only murderers and rapists for friends”, so from such a person, can we expect unbiased investigation?

Time has to tell, whether it is real or reel, or fact or fiction?

I think that the video recording done appears to be artificial and stage-managed:

¹   The characters boast of themselves showing off about their purported acts without knowing the implications.

¹   It is a simple law that in no case the accused can be made a witness to him. Ironically, in the instant case, they go on confess what they purportedly done very cogently, as expected or desired by Ashish Khetan alias Piyush Aggarwal posing as a “Hindu zealot” as has been accepted by himself.

¹   Suresh Richard was reacting with his blabbering talk just like a drunkard.

¹   Having AK-47, rocket launchers etc., are not joke and it is the biggest joke that such a capable investigator has failed to capture such material evidence instead of recording just boasting-talks.

¹   As the recording is repeatedly shown, it could be easily noted that they are edited and with lot of mixing. The terror-film like music superimposed etc., with effects of fade, equalizer, doppler, mechanize, echo, reverse, flanger proves that the recording has been completely manipulated and done in a studio by professional guys.

¹   Production sound mixing has been the complex craft of recording live dialogue and sound effects on the set during principal production of a motion picture or video and therefore that such effects are captured and recorded with spy-cameras is questionable.

¹   Video clips, synchronization, its pre-determined arrangement, shooting with specified shooting etc., show artificial nature of investigation.

¹   The way in which the past events are mixed up targeting only Modi points to a pre-planned shooting instead of an investigative effort.

¹   The repeatedly shown clippings make us remember what the SUN-TV had done in the case of arrest of Karunanidhi and Murasoli Maran. “Aiyo ennai kolai seyanga” (Oh, they are killing me), gate-crashing of T. R. Balu, Kaveri threatening the Police etc., Of course, DMK could unseat Jayalalitha, if not getting majority!

¹   The very same tactics is fond in the methodology adopted and adapted by Ashish Khetan alias Piyush Aggarwal.

¹   Ajtak and NDTV have started showing video of Tehelka with a warning that the channels are not guarantee for the contents of the news or they are not subscribing to them! But, still they are shown!

¹   Ajtak and NDTV guys were repeatedly putting leading question.

¹   By the way, why can’t Ashish Khetan alias Piyush Aggarwal like expert go to Kashmir and investigate into nuances of terrorism etc?

N     Why can’t go into Hyderabad blasts by mixing with Islamic fundamentalists there for six months? N     Why can’t go to Ajmer Darga to prevent the blast? N     Why can’t they investigate into unreasonable price rise in construction materials, ethics of journalists, millions of tax evasion by the MNCs?

¹   In fact, had Karunanidhi engaged Tehelka, he could have saved a lot in the Coimbatore blast case!

¹   Of course, T. R. Balu could have engaged for Ramasethu, as Tehelka could produce and give such evidences videographically.

VEDAPPRAKASH

26-10-2007

Romila Thapar, Duke University, Methodist Church or Romila Thapar, Secularism, Secular history: The Role of Historian and Social Change!

July 16, 2009
Romila Thapar, Duke University, Methodist Church or Romila Thapar, Secularism, Secular history: The Role of Historian and Social Change!
Published on October 23rd, 2007 In Uncategorized, Politics |  Views 410
Romila Thapar, Duke University, Methodist Church orRomila Thapar, Secularism, Secular history: The Role of Historian and Social Change! I am happy to know that, “The Historian in the World: A Conversation with John Hope Franklin and Romila Thapar” will take place at 3 p.m. in the Divinity School’s Goodson Chapel on Duke’s West Campus. It is free and open to the public. Srinivas Aravamudan, director of the John Hope Franklin Humanities Institute, will moderate the discussion”. http://www.dukenews .duke.edu/ 2007/10/conversa tion.htmlI am more anxious what the historians discuss there in the Divinity School’s Goodson Chapel on Duke’s West Campus on October 22, 2007!

“the DivinitySchool’s Goodson Chapel on Duke’s West Campus” made me curious to look into the details. The University claims that, “The Duke University is related the Methodist Church”.

For details see: “Duke University”s Relation to the Methodist Church”:  http://library.duke.edu/uarchives/history/duke-umchh.html

  •      Well, it is all right, bt how the reportedly Communist or Marxist, progressive, secuar Romila Thapar would be speaking there in the, “the Divinity School’s Goodson Chapel on Duke’s West Campus”?
  •      How “Two distinguished scholars will share their views of the role of the historian and social change”?
  •      Would they discuss within the Charter, bylaws, aims, and mission statement” or they go beyond?

The “Charter, bylaws, aims, and mission statement” contains a provision, as follows:

The aims of Duke University are to assert a faith in the eternal union of knowledge and religion set forth in the teachings and character of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; to advance learning in all lines of truth; to defend scholarship against all false notions and ideals; to develop a Christian love of freedom and truth; to promote a sincere spirit of tolerance; to discourage all partisan and sectarian strife; and to render the largest permanent service to the individual, the state, the nation, and the church. Unto these ends shall the affairs of this University always be administered”.http://library.duke.edu/uarchives/history/charterlink.html

How Ropmila Thapar hailing from “Secular India” is going to be accommodative, conducive and recptive to such Christians principles in the name of Jesus Christ? This makes me remember as to how the Christian Crusades, marriages and other functions are held at the “Periyar Tidal” (auditourium with big hall) at Chennai, India. The podium / stage there bear the Cross-believing Christians and the atheists, who speak against the God, scriptures and believers! Like that, would the “the Divinity School’s Goodson Chapel on Duke’s West Campus” bear the secular, progressive and sectarian Romila Thapar there in the name of Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

Just remember, what she wrote about Jesus Christ, when she was accusing Rama, the Hindu God as a myth:

This does not happen with the biographies of those who were known to be historical figures and who founded belief systems: the Buddha, Jesus Christ, Mohammad. Their biographies adhere largely to a single story-line and this helps to endorse the ‘official’ narrative of their life. Their existence is recorded in other sources as well that are not just narratives of their lives but have diverse associations…..”.

At that time, I had responded as follows:

Their biographies adhere largely to a single story-line and this helps to endorse the ‘official’ narrative of their life.Why they should largely adhere to a single line? How this helps “official” narrative? How “official” it could be of “their life”? Why can’t you write as a historian instead of believer here? That the “biographers” were compelled or forced to accept or adhere to a single line proves that many lines were left out. And still small number of biographers who did not adhere to a single line is also exposed. Then, what you are talking about? Majority view and minority view? Condemn the “lesser” and accept or approve the Larger”! Adhere to one-line and forget many lines! What sort of historian you are? That man Karu has become a senile man and talks differently. Do you also do the same think as a senile lady?How you endorse such one-liners? Is there any historical methodology to that effect? Which University teaches such approving of one-line biography by eminent historians like you?Do not fool Indians. Ernest Renan, J. M. Robertson and so many reputed authorities are there on the subject matter of Jesus Christ and Christianity. Any way, it is your cowardice gets exposed, as you never whispered anything, when there was much Christian opposition to screening of “Da Vinci Code”. However, when the so-called “Hindutva judgment” came out, you vociferously jumped and asserted that “We would go to Court”. Everything appeared in “the Hindu” itself with your face. Madam, what happened? But now you come siding with atheists, anti-Hindus, anti-nationals as a historian suppressing the recent past and forgetting your own past!

Their existence is recorded in other sources as well that are not just narratives of their lives but have diverse associations. So also Rama. Why then your argument goes differently.In fact, their associations differ. But, Ramayana core story, as H. D. Sankalia in his “Ramayana Myth or Reality”  that it had been there nearly for 3000 years.How “That their existences is recorded in other sources” help you to decide?

It may be noted that historians and scholars have pointed out that Christ story was copied from
Krishna! Rama was repeatedly mentioned in different literature not because of variance, but influence and impact created on the people well before 2500-3000 YBP. Was the Sangam poet a fool to record in his poem about his discussion with his army about the mode of crossing over the ocean to Lanka”. How that poet was imaging that that Lanka should have been the Lanka of Ramayana in his times i.e, 2500 – 3000 YBP?”

Definitely, the Americans and American Christian believers might be knowing about the background and the implications revoving around the discussion. So, we Indians are eagerly waiting to see as to how tshe is going to discuss within the conditions of the University and Christian belief system or she would have courage to vent our her genuine feeling as sjhe has been doing here in India against Hindus. As she has recently started supporting the atheist political party DK-DMK-PMK combine of the ruling combine (supported by the Communist-Marxist political parties from outside), we look forward the discussion to fulfil the following conditions:

The aims of Duke University are to assert a faith in the eternal union of knowledge and religion set forth in the teachings and character of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; V     to advance learning in all lines of truth; to defend scholarship against all false notions and ideals; to develop a Christian love of freedom and truth; V     to promote a sincere spirit of tolerance; to discourage all partisan and sectarian strife; and V     to render the largest permanent service to the individual, the state, the nation, and the church.

Unto these ends shall the affairs of this University always be administered

The activities of Duke foundation have been obviously Christian:

For details: click and see http://www.dukeendowment.org/ruralchurch

VEDAPRAKASH

22-10-2007.

Dravidian liars and anti-Hindu atheists

July 16, 2009
Dravidian liars and anti-Hindu atheists
Published on October 20th, 2007 In Uncategorized, Politics |  Views 734
Earlier, Nandi posted in WordPress.com, in which he has made several mistakes. After pointing out (see below), now, he is coning out here with corrections made without acknowledging.

I am posting the following as a reply to Nandi”s posting appearing here:

My attention is drawn to your posting in WordPress.com.

I offer my comments to your post:

“India was an island nation surrounded by seas hence it had the name நாவலந் தீவு.

Is to so? Kindly tell me, where the expression நாவலந் தீவு is found in the ancient Tamil literature or “Sangam” literature?

“In such a scenario to claim that a Land Bridge built 1,750.000 years ago when no human being had inhabited the Earth”

In haste, you are mentioning as 1,750 years (1,750.000 = 1750).

Paula Richman wrote a book titled “Many Ramayanas” Yes the question before us is to accept which Ramayana as true story?.

You claimed youself as a rationalist / atheist etc. Then, you have to be careful in quoting from secondary sources, because, non-Hindus or anti-Hindus can write anything and quoting such biased ideas make you unbecoming of a “rationalist / atheist”. You should have read H. D. Sankalia also before jumping into the so-called “debate”.

Your mention about Jain / Buddha Ramayanas: As Ramayana has become so popular, even Jains and Buddhists had to imitate Ramayana by changing the story, just like Kulandai. Therefore, there is nothing new in it. As a researcher or scholar or historian, you have to demythologize and find out the truth, instead of relying upon “such myth on myth”, straightaway.

[The biblical Adam and Eve’s story and its resemblance could also be taken note of] Sita becoming a monket after eating a fruit: This shows that either you have not read the story properly or misquoting or rather drawing wrong parallel with the biblical Adam and Eve (don’t try to escape by telling that I am a rationalist and all). I do not know as to whether Eve became monkey to have such forceful comparison!

You furthering the above story: Here, you are perhaps nearing the biblical fables, as Jesus also reportedly married to May Magdelene. Perhaps, you decided to not stretch it.

According to Thais, Hanuman had many affairs and children: Naturally, if the wishes are horses, even blind can fly. Why Thais, even Annba did it. As you are a rationalist and atheist, you quote all these things, so enjoy.

Anna’s inconclusive debate on Kamba Ramayanam: “Navalar Somasundara Bharathiar and சொல்லின் செல்வர் R.P.Sethu Pillai debated with Anna and openly admitted they have lost the debate. This debate in Tamil Book “Let Fire Spread” தீ பரவட்டும் wants to illuminate Tamil hearts by symbolically burning Kamba ramayanam. Pulavar Kuzhanthai wrote  இராவண காவியம் . Ravana Kavyam  can be considered as Dravidian version of Ramayanam”.No, they were ashamed of the perversity and vulgarity erupted in the name of literary flow and hanged their heads. Any Tamil knowing or reading person would hang his head after reading as it is just like “yellow journalism” circulated under the “Dravidian” banner, that too, coming from Anna, wjo became Chief Minister of Tamilnadu taking oath under the Indian Constitution, that has been written by Ambedkar. Anyway, the facts are as follows:

N     The so called debate was held in the auditorium ofLaw
College, Madras on 09-02-1943 under Ramachandra Chettiyar.

N     Anna started speaking and took more than one and half hours leaving no time to others.

N     Pointing out the falsehood in his speech, R. P. Sethu Pillai openly spoke about his weakness in the argument. In fact, re ridiculed Anna for quoting from “Northern Nehru”, being a “Nakkiran” (one who always finds fault with others). Regretting that he could not speak for long time, he wound up his speech within ten minutes. He dared him that he would even come to Kanchipuram for another debate on the subject matter, if he would invite him.

N     Ezattu Adigal, who followed him, was asked to cut short his speech within five minutes.

N     Then Srinivasan started speaking, but he was prevented from speaking, as the DK activists created a riot-like condition. He had to stop his speech, because of the pandemonium created by them.

N     But, Anna was given a chance to speak again!

N     So that was the debate conducted with “freedom of speech” and respect for speakers!

N     However, winding up, C. M. Ramachandra Chetti concluded that he could not give his opinion, as the debate had been inconclusive.

The main point discussed was as to whether Ravana was an Aryan or Dravidian. Thus, the first debate had been the most undemocratic conducted under controlled conditions with rioters.

The second debate was conducted on 14-03-1943 at Devanga Padasalai, Sevvaipettai,
Salem. Salem College A. Ramasamy presided over Anna and Somasundara Bharathi spoke.

N     Anna spoke as usual taking full time.

N     Somasundara Bharathi pointed out that Anna spoke as an orator with brimming emotion not as a debater. He then, however brought out his points refuting Anna;s talk.

N     He left, as his speech was over and moreover, he had to catch his train, as plannede by the organizers.

N     But, after his departure, Anna was given a chance and he stressed upon Ravana’s race and concluded with the demand of burning “scriptures of Aryans”.

N     A. Ramasamy, though did not gave any result about the debate, he pointed out that there was “vulgarity” in Kamba Ramayanam.

In any case, such diverted reference has nothing to do with the “Ramar’s Palam”.

The question before us which of these versions is based on true historical facts. These are not days where everyone will accept anything with blind faith. If you place new facts to reopen a settled issue in history, you should place facts and prove it”.

Yes, yes. Nowadays, everybody can get information easily and they decide about truth behind it.  Even in those days (when Anna debated), the other scholars were not allowed to speak or threatened with dire consequences. In other words, they used their own type of terrorism in those days. Now, let us see, how truth is faced.

“Let us examine the falsehoods one by one. We from the Dravidian Movement are atheists but not Ravana; all know that Ravana as per epics is a devotee of Lord Siva. The doubt which arises to me is why should a reincarnation of God perform superhuman deeds to impress demigods? Does it mean that Demigods are more powerful than the Original God on reincarnation?”

Interestingly, the answer is there in the so-called above debate, as they debated only about the race of Ravana as to whether he was an Aryan or Dravidian! Rationalist or atheist has to deny such myth. Having believed it as a myth, why one should worry about it as to whether it works or not? Without Ramayana myth, there is no Ravana. If Ramayana is myth, Ravana is also a myth. Then, why debate about his “racist credentials”?

“There are many books on Indian Ocean. All these books give us evidences on the continental drift, the submerged lands of the Lemuria, which Tamils prefer to call as the Kumari Kandam”.

Yes, but note again, the western scholars do not believe in such hypotheses. Why them, even Indian eminent historians not only do not accept, but also dub them as myth.

Mr. Nandi Varman, go to Endo-eurasian group and other forums, where Tamil literature is misinterpreted and disrespected. Steve Farmer openly accuses that your friend R. Mathivanan is a foregerer. They go on debate even without knowing the fundamentals of Tamil and Tamil literature. I feel it is better spend your energy there instead of politicizing the issue.

VEDAPRAKASH,

Researcher,

Chennai.

vedamvedaprakash@yahoo.com

Historians: Mythistory, Historical myths and Historiography in India

July 16, 2009
Historians: Mythistory, Historical myths and Historiography in India
Published on October 20th, 2007 In Uncategorized, Politics |  Views 1286
Historians: Mythistory, Historical myths and Historiography in IndiaThe Communist historians posing as “master of all arts”: K. N. Panikkar1, the rabid communist and Red Parivar fundamentalist has been out with his brigade and arsenal to attack the noble subject of history and historiography with professionally biased, ideologically corrupted and historically perverse duplicity. He follows Romila Thapar2 sincerely and faithfully without any historical sincerity, epistemological honesty and historiosophic faith, though, in his determination to write about politicization of history. Now, his new venomic dosage has poured in the form of “Myth, history and politics” with due accommodation in the propagandist communist mouth-piece of “Frontline”3.

Suraj Bhan4, the Babri-archaeologist says, “Government should have stood by ASI”. Ironically, he sided with the communal and divisive forces of BMAC at that time. More irony was that the BMAC was producing EVR books as evidence to the government. He now goes to assert that archaeology has nothing to do with religion. But it is archaeology, those archaeological evidences, which decides the fate of religion. He need not come out about the NASA pictures now, as archaeologists or scientists never opine, as do now, when the pictures were published in media and discussed widely. At that time itself, the scientific community could have openly asserted that it was only a ridge made of coral reef and so on.

Earlier, the eminent historian, Romila Thapar had the audacity of questioning the so-called “Hindutwa judgment” and declared, “We will file appeal in the Supreme Court”. But nothing happened. This had been a glaring example of historians meddling with religious sentiments, and judicial judgments.

“    So why these retired, senile, old-aged historians off and on, come out and roar and sleep like this?

“    Why they want to pretend to be “master of all arts or subjects”?

“    Are they really sincere in pursuing such path or just write something, get money and keep quite?

Indians are forced to study them carefully for their exhibited behaviour5 (shouting, fighting and beating during the business sessions of IHC, SIHC etc), eccentric statements and claims (that we would appeal to Supreme Court) and occasional explosive writings [as appearing in the Hindu, Frontline, EPW, Murasoli (mouth-piece of the militant anti-Hindu DMK) etc]. How the persons of various disciplines should be evidently ganged against one particular religious believers, religion and their belief system? Is it coincidence or orchestrated war against them? What is right or wrong with them?

Politicization of Ayodhya – the Myth and Reality: While the people of Ayodhya have started cursing BJP and Sangh Parivar for forsaking the issue, the Red gang at Faizabad tried to interpret differently6. But the local people who have been living there for thousands of years do not believe the communists. At one time, they have even driven away them and warned that they would not vote for them again (ironically, the people of Faizabad in which Ayodhya is situated elected Communist).

Had they known that these communist historians are propagating another myth that “Ayodhya” was in Afghanistan7, even local Muslims would have thrashed them out for “talibanization of Indian history”8. The people of Ayodhya have been angry with politicians, ideologists and government, as they have been disturbed, troubled and harassed by them always. Whenever, any problem is there, they land down to get sensational news and disappear.

But the continuing tradition, age-old worship, people participation in the festivals, fairs and celebrations have been curtailed by the government under the guise of security. So why the Red Parivar (Communists of all sorts), the Black Parivar (the atheist-politicians of all sorts) and the Green Parivar (not elsewhere specified) want to remember Rama?

The local Hindus and Muslims blame all, as they have lost their land, the traditional places of festivals and fairs, terribly disturbed by the police and security forces, as they could not carry out their routines, periodic festivals and fairs. Tourism, fairs and festivals only bring money for livelihood there. As they live on such fairs and festivals and now they are restricted and even banned, thousands of people of Ayodhya have been affected greatly. Their grievance has been two-fold –

  1. As BJP and Sangh Parivar forgotten Rama and Ayodhya, the people coming to Ayodhya has stopped and
  2. because of government restriction, terrorist attack etc., the strength of tourists coming there has also dwindled down.

They, painfully express that nowadays, people are afraid of Ayodhya, because of the politicization. Have historians noted this point? The mythologization of history of Ayodhya has only brought harm to the people and not any benefit. The fight of archaeologists9 at WAC-3 only exposed the Communal, fundamentalist, fanatic, ideologically oriented archaeologists and not any real archaeologists who work for the benefit or welfare of Indians.

Now, the Politicization of Rameswaram: The same thing has started happening at Rameswaram and the sacred spot Sethu-samuthram. For thousands of years, the Hindus have been faithfully going there coming from extreme north and north-west and even from foreign countries to have holy-dip at the Dhanuskoti. On every auspicious day, there would be lakhs and thousands of people gathering there to carry out their duties without any publicity.  It is not myth that every place, spot and even stones and earth there are named after Ramayanic characters, episodes and happenings, as no historian or mythologist has taught them to do so.

\    If there is no Rama and Ramayana, where is Rameswaram?

\    Can these archaeologists and historians could find pr suggest another name for this place?

\    How the engaged responsible scientists and others without consciousness, honesty and integrity, mention as “Adam-bridge” now in official documents and writings even in the science journals10?

\     Then, why can’t they change the name to Adam-samuthram Project instead of Setu-samuthram project?

\    With such mind-set, have they any morality or moral right to sit in the Committee?

But now, the politicians, engineers, workers and others have landed in gangs and started disturbing, troubling and harassing the locals. Not only the pilgrims even the locals have been annoyed by their behaviour and activities.

If Rama is not there, there is no Rameswaram. But the historians, politicians and the non-believing atheist evidently anti-Hindu have been out to attack the innocent Hindus. Still millions of Hindus do not know that their monument has already been subjected to demolition in the name of progress, project, and money-making political contracts where more than 2500 crores are involved.

So now, it has been the atheist DMK who wants to be in power blackmailing and extracting from the Congress, who are ironically supported by the very Communist crones of treachery. The political power brokers have ganged together under the guise of bastardized alliance burying their ideologies only with the aim of amassing crores through commissions, contracts and postings. They do not have anything for India, or anything connected with
India. Why then, they have ganged together to rule? So the intention has been very clear to loot the people under the name of pseudo-secularism, political fundamentalism and alliance gangsterism.

So their slaves and agents of historians, paid-writers and pert-journalists have no other business from their slumber, but suddenly wake up and start writing about Rama, Ramayana etc., in the accommodative papers and journals. Why the duplicity? And what these historians talk and write about?

Filing and withdrawal of Affidavits: An “affidavit” has been a sworn statement submitted to any legal or quasi-judicial; forum by the applicant or respondent in the involved case or dispute with usual appendage, “I do hereby solemnly affirm and say that the statements contained in the foregoing petition are true to my knowledge”. Generally, a lawyer or advocate would draft it taking facts from their client. After approval of the client, it would be vetted by the senior advocate and filed on the judicial forum. What is the role of historians or archaeologists here, that too, not connected with the case? If there has been any legal lacuna or deviation, even if one is not advocate or party, it can be pointed out for rectification.

Remember the affidavit and petition filed by one Chandamal Chopra11 in Calcutta High Court on June 18th, 1985 – popularly known as “Calcutta Quran petition”? Why these Communist historians were sleeping when it happened from their citadel? Even though, the petition and review petition filed by Chandamal Chopra was dismissed by the Judge Bimal Chandra Basak, the Court documents tell the history.

Take another classical case of Sri Ramakrishna Mission claiming minority status12 in the very same Calcutta High Court! What happened? Yes, the so-called Hindutwa Mission found by the communal Swami Vivekananda was declared as minority Institution by the Calcutta High Court! What these historians were doing at that time? Where Romila was roaming, Panikkar was poking or prowling upon and Suraj was snoozing? The affidavits did not bother them? They did not know the history or fooling the people of India?

Why “the only nationalist newspaper”,  “The Hindu” and the communist “Frontline” did not come out with articles questioning the affidavits, history, faith, myth, fusion etc., involved in the above cases? Why archaeologists like Suran Bhan did not come out to rescue archaeology or history or at least to suggest the government, as he doing now?

Why historians are sleeping and awakening suddenly? If these historians are committed to the historical cause with historicity in their minds, they should be consistent with every similar issue. They should be conscious, vigil, and awakened all the times and come out with their articles in The Hindu, EPW or frontline. But, they are active only when “Rama” is involved.

V     Why can’t their historical consciousness and historical thinking question the historicity of Jehovah, Allah, Jesus, Christ, Mary, Mohammed,
Fatima and their connected events and happenings? 13

V     Location of their places of birth, so-journ and death?

V     Archaeology of such places? 14

As India is a secular state and the festivals of them are imposed on majority Hindus, all Indians have every right to know why Christmas, Easter, Miladi-nabi, Bakrid, and other festivals are celebrated15. The Hindus and true-secularists are bewildered and perplexed as to why the Muslims and Christians are greeted whenever their festivals are celebrated? Or their gods days of birth and death are celebrated, whereas that of others, particularly, the Hindus are neglected?

M  Why myth, history, faith, fusion etc., work differently here?

M  Why this variance in the approach of historians?

M  Is it historically allowed or hysterically followed?

M  Why methodology differs?

M  Why scientific temper in history fails?

M  Why secularism too stops working?

M  Why multivocal existence, folklore tradition, narrations of Bibles, Quarans etc., are not talked about?

M  If myth represent reality but represent it symbolically and metaphorically yet masking reality, why such myths are not told to secular Indians?

Thus, it is evident that these archaeologists and historians have been totally dishonest, corrupt, and perverse by being partial, biased and prejudiced. Definitely, these qualities are not for good historians. Hiding their cunningness and manipulative shrewdness, they now declare that they need not have any objectivity in history. As in the west, here there have not been any wagers for mythologization of history or historification of myth, but still, unofficial war is waged6 by the Communal Communist forces calling others as communal ands so on!

Of course, they might have done good work some 20-30 years back, but now, their psyche and mind-set are revealed and definitely, Indians cannot expect any historically faithful writings from them.

6      And they would continue to write like this with the same trend of faith, fusion, etc., creating “mythistory” 17 in Indian fooling millions of students of schools and colleges.

6      Can any responsible parent of
India allow these horrible and horror historians to write text-books for our children to read and become fundamentalists, fanatics and terrorists of new brand under the guise of pseudo-secularism, secular-fundamentalism and mythistory?

Myth, history, mythistory: Historically “myth” is not false, untruth or non-existent, in historical context at a particular historical time and historical place. Thus, historical myths are not opposed to historical facts, as from such myths only, the facts are culled out, grouped, analyzed and results are drawn for interpretation. Without myth or at least believing in myth, no archaeologist could proceed in his field study. He cannot locate any mound to start his dig.

History is not what is or has been or will be written but it is really what has or had happened in the past. In such understanding the past, historians cannot compel, dictate and force people with their own yardstick or scale

6      If historian says that your God is only 1000 years old or 2000 years old, that is his understanding of past, as the living tradition proves beyond doubt that certain people have been knowing that God for at least more than 4000 years. So historian fails in this simple case.

6      Historian says that one particular civilization has been illiterate and thus pre-historical in spite of their technology exhibited through material evidences excelling the present. Here also he fails miserably without understanding the facts.

6      He is creating a myth that only people with writing, that too that writing preserved and shown to them would be accepted as historical.

6      The limitation of understanding the past, misunderstanding or not-understanding of facts through material evidence, non-acceptance of available material evidence in historical perspectives etc., are only weaknesses of historians and not fault of such evidences. Here also historians create their myth.

6      If reconstruction of history is not possible with available constructive evidences, then, they cannot question the re-writing historians, adamantly, as again, they are creating a myth – the might of fascism that they can only write history and others cannot.

The historiography or rather historiographies of the pre-Christian or post-Christian, the pre-Mohammedan or post-Mohammedan, pre-Islamic or post-Islamic, pre-colonial or post-colonial interpretations, bias and prejudice at global level has been accepted one. The Indian history and historiography has been the adversely affected by all such impositions, censorship and professional bias-system operated and has been operating even today at different levels. Common Indians are not able to understand as to why these historians of all the above groups are ganged together and act against them? It is not the question of “Right” or “Left” but “Right” or “Wrong”. Indians cannot accept if “Right” is given by the “Right” or “Left”, or “wrong” is forced on them by the same categories. If both have problem in choosing which is right or wrong, Indians are not responsible for that, as they have books written and preserved in spite of the Muslim and Christian onslaught of destruction and carrying away the manuscripts and palm-leaf books ad other valuable historical evidences.

Unfortunately, Indian historical scholarship started reflecting some set of political or ideological groups degenerating into propaganda serving their political masters. The Congress has evidently nurtured the Communist or Marxist brand of historians since Nehru and they have been enjoying the postings in many historical and historian forums.

Politicians, historians, scientists and Adam-bridge: Now, we see not only historians, but also scientists have been ganged up with them. All have been under the control of politicians. They would have already sworn affidavit with their political masters. How then, they would faithfully come out with their professional expertise? When about one billion believers call it as “Ram-sethu”, these chosen numbers have audacity to mention as “Adam-bridge”, like Babri-Masid! Why such selective or specific bias on the part of scientists and experts?

It is obvious, the Communist historians may also get a share in the form of VC, members, directors in the thousands of Government controls academies, institutes etc., where they get income regularly with other regular facilities.

Appeal to Historians, scientists and politicians: If you want to earn money, go on build bridges in the city and towns. You can build two or more at required points or at non-required points, No problem. Lay four-track, six-track roads for MNCs, you get crores of rupees as commission. You can get funds from ADB, World Bank, American Bank, Communist Bank, Islamic Bank (perhaps without interest) etc., without bringing Rama. Shellout all agricultural lands to MNCs, no problem. Develop SEZs, kill people, immediately, you can bring revolution! Forget Rama and Sethu-samuthram project.

You can share with your scientists and historians by engaging them as “consultants”. Of course, corporate corruption always accommodates “consultants”, just like The Hindu, Frontline etc., accommodating communal communist historians. Do not taking Ayodhya to Afghanistan and Lanka to Madhyapreadesh or elsewhere, by actual talibanization of history.

The Indian politicians – please do play with the communist cronies and encouraging them to goon and spin mythistory. Do not try to wage war against innocent people of
India.

N     By calling Rama a myth, a drunkard and so on, what you are going to achieve? We know you people always drink.

N     Can you get the status of Rama?

N     Or can you become a Rama?

N     By saying that my leader name is Ramaswamy, can any fool would believe that you are so friendly to Rama?

N     Do not you think that you are creating myth like roaming Romila, puny Pankkar and sullying Suraj?

Leave Rama to Ramabaktas, they are capable of taking care of him. Do not worry about Ayodhya or Lanka. Be happy with Ravana.

Notes and References

1.     K. N. Panikkar, a former professor of history, at Jawaharlal Nehru University and a former-vice-chancellor of Sree Sankarayacharya University of Sanskrit (sic), is currently the chairman of the Kerala Council of Historical Research. In IHC sessions, he used to give lectures in the evenings officially and unofficially to the Communist and Muslim groups separately.

2.     Romila Thapar, “Where fusion cannot work – faith and history” (the Hindu, dated September 28, 2007).

…………………., Historical Memory without History, in Economic and Political weekly, VOL 42 No. 39 September 29 – October 05, 2007, pp.3903-3905

3.     K. N. Panikkar, Myth, history and politics, Frontline, October 5, 2007, pp.21-24.

4.     Suraj Bhan, “Government should have stood by ASI”, Ibid, pp.19-20.

5.     It is very common during the sessions IHC. During business session of 51st session held atCalcutta in 1990, the members were about to clash with each other, but three delegates from Tamilnadu virtually-physically forced them apart. During the dinner hosted at the lawns of Victoria Memorial Building, the delegates all historians, professors etc., fall on the food without any discipline. The same three
Madras delegates came to rescue asking them to come in line to take their food.

K. Chitra Rao, Indian History Congress, a letter appearing in the Hindu dated December 10, 1991. It gives the gist of what happened at the Calcutta session. Of course, it has been edited version.During Warangal session, Bipan Chandra got angry and started shouting creating ugly scene during the session.

6.     A documentary film shown on Ayodhya few months back from 10 to 10.30 am.

7.     A delegate from Aligarh Muslim University presented a paper locating Ayodhya at Afghanistan during the IHC session held at Bhopal.

8.     The expression “Talibanization of history” has been used by the Christian-Communist-Muslim-atheist historian groups against the so-called Hindutwa historians, but in action, they are indulging in such “talibanization”. The accusers themselves enhaged in the action of the “accused”!

9.     World Archaeology Conference (WAC-3) held at New Delhi has been a blot on Indian archeology and history, as the so-called archaeologists openly fought with each other exposing their ugly minds.

10.  P. Seralathan, Disposal of dredge spoil from Sethusamudhram Ship Channel Project, Currenmt Science, Vol.90, No.2, January 25, 32006, pp.146-147.

11.  Sita Ram Goel, The Calcutta Quran Petition, Voice of India, New Delhi, 1986.

12.  Sri Ramakrishna Mission, founded by Sri Swamy Vivekananda, filed a petition in Calcutta High Court claiming “minority” status as a “non-Hindu. However, the Supreme Court held it as “Hindu”!

13.  A cursory browsing in the net gives you thousands of sites with facts.

14.  See “Bible and Archeology” books in the net. The general policy of the government has been, if evidences supporting Bible are found, funds would be given, otherwise no.

15.  Earlier for Miladunabi, etc., holiday was not there. But after V. P. Singh, communalization has crept into even in the declaration of “Government hoilidays”. Thus, as expected, the birth day of Mohammed is a holiday always, whereas that of Rama or
Krishna is not a holyday!

16.  Jerry H. Bentley, Myths, Wagers, and Some Moral Implications of World History, in Jounal of World History, Vol.16, No.1. Available in the following site: http://www.historycooperative.org/cgi-bin/cite.cgi?=jwh/16.1/bentley.html

17.  The word “mythistory” was used by K. V. Ramakrishna Rao in his writings during 1983. However, it is claimed that McNeill used it connoting, “a form of knowledge about the past that relies on the techniques of professional historical scholarship but also draws inspiration from perspectives that offer idealized visions of a community and endow its historical accounts with meaning”.

William H. McNeill, “Mythistory, or Truth, Myth, History, and Historians,” American Historical Review 91 (1986): 1–10;

…………………….., Mythistory and Other Essays (Chicago, 1986), pp. 3–22.

………………………….., “Mythistory,” p. 7. For an elaboration that perhaps represents what McNeill had in mind for his ecumenical world history, see J. R. McNeill and William H. McNeill, The Human Web: A Bird”s-Eye View of World History (New York, 2003).

Why Pope follows two ways in the name of God – Globalization of “division” / “denomination”and “caste”!

July 16, 2009
Why Pope follows two ways in the name of God – Globalization of “division” / “denomination”and “caste”!
Published on October 9th, 2007 In Uncategorized | Views 373 <!– by Vedaprakash –>

Why Pope follows two ways in the name of God – Globalization of “division” / “denomination”and “caste”!

Introduction: The call of the head of the World Alliance of Reformed Churches on the North American Christian family made to “engage in some house cleaning” as divisions within the Church and lack of collaboration for God’s mission continue to plague the Body of Christ” last month (September 2007) is interesting. It is not known why their houses are so dirty to be cleaned. If at all dirty, how that dirt has come and by whom, it has been deposited in their houses is not clear. To what extent, the “House cleaning” can go, as it “plagues the body of Christ”!

The speeches of Christians, Christian leaders, writers and others and also that of Pope from time to time appears to be very strange, intriguing and contradicting. The following is the news item which criticizes the “divisions’ among the Christians of USA and
Canada, both are very advanced nations on the earth with all comforts and wealth. God has showered and provided them with everything, but why the “division” should come?

Christian ‘House Cleaning’ Needed Amid Divisions, Says Global Church Leader

By Eric YoungChristian Post ReporterMon, Sep. 17 2007 09:46 AM EThttp://www.christianpost.com/article/20070917/29333_Christian_”House_Cleaning”_Needed_Amid_Divisions,_Says_Global_Church_Leader.htmThe head of the World Alliance of Reformed Churches called on the North American Christian family to “engage in some house cleaning” as divisions within the Church and lack of collaboration for God’s mission continue to plague the Body of Christ.WARC general secretary Setri Nyomi said that when Reformed churches heal divisions in their own families and commit themselves to engage in mission in unity with other Christians, they are fulfilling an essential Reformed call.“It is a shame that there are so many divisions within the Christian family – especially within the Reformed family,” he added in a presentation Friday marking the 150th anniversary of the Christian Reformed Church (CRC) in
North America. “This shameful tendency calls us as Reformed Christians to engage in some house cleaning within our own family.”The Dutch Reformed churches in the
Netherlands, where the CRC traces its roots to, have a long history of mergers and schisms, and the CRC has not escaped these. The CRC split from the Reformed Church in
America in an 1857 Secession, which was in part the result of a theological dispute that originated in the
Netherlands. Some other denominations later merged with the CRC, most notably the True Protestant Dutch Reformed Church in 1890. Other churches later split from the CRC, including the Protestant Reformed Church in the mid 1920s, the Orthodox Christian Reformed Church in 1988, and the United Reformed Churches in North America in 1996.

“Anti-Dalitness”: Believers have to respect their “beliefs” in the name of their “God”. “In Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek, bond / slave nor free, male or female; for ye / you are all one in Jesus / Jesus Christ” (Galatians 3.28). This is very often quoted for the Christian equity, Jesus justice, ecclesiastic equality, Gender equality and so on. But why there has been social segregation and discrimination?

“    John Sentamu, became the
Britain’s first Black Archbishop (June 2005), he brought out one book in which he says that the Church of England is “institutionally racist”. Immediately, the “Daily Telegraph” (September 2005) dismissed this as nonsense quoting
St Paul that in Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek. They said that
St Paul might have added that are there black or white archbishops, merely good and bad ones.
“    That is they try to interpret theologically, in the appointment of Archbishops, there is no discrimination based on colour! “    Of course, UK blacks pointed out that MacPherson inquiry into the murder of Stephen Lawrence introduced them to the uncomfortable concept of institutional racism in the Police. “    They point out that racism goes beyond individual attitudes and experience to their collective experience of fairness and justice and noted the discrimination in Katrina relief in
USA. In the land of individual freedom and opportunity it was poor Black people Hurricane Katrina left stranded in
New Orleans suffered heavily.

The CRC and DRC are definitely racist Churches. The DRC divides African Christians – Whites, Blacks and Coloured / Browns and allows three Churches accordingly. Whether DRC merges with CRC or otherwise, the white dominated Churches always treat the non-whites inferior. For them, it is black, brown, etc is irrelevant. This is further aggravated by their theological positions and rivalries. When a non-white comes to higher position, immediately, the whites oppose one way or the other. Maximum, they can have the postings of Bishop and Cardinal, but can they have a Black or Brown as Pope? Can they have woman as Pope? Therefore, the “anti-Dalitness” or the oppressive, suppressive, repressive, tyrannical, despotic and exploitative authority is accepted, justified and concretized theologically. [Note, the word “dalit” is a misnomer and it does not connote any exclusive group as writers and journalist try to imply].

Besides, theology, money, material benefits and other factors join the race. In the western world, the bishops, priests, theologians, and other religious functionaries have not been religious but material enjoying the life. More spirit flows into their mouth than the coming out Spirituality of God. Their affluent, opulent, status of both combined take them as the most privileged at higher-higher level.

So the sharing of material benefits affect their theology reflected in theology and refracted through race and other ethnic factors ultimately percolated as hardened divisions in the society. Jesus or Christ, Joseph or Jehovah, Mary or Mary Magdalene, the apostles, saints, who is responsible?

Racism, racialism and Christianity: Racism and Christianity in American and European political and social regulations, controls and immigration laws have been implicit acting at different levels. The White males openly vent out their feelings of Racism through Christian fundamentalism. The Christian politicians of the west have never hidden their hatred, as many times, they have been explicit in mannerism and body language. Remember, in August 2007 how Indians were beaten up brutally by the German racists? If one goes by colour, the beaten-up Indians appear white only. Why then the Germans attacked? So for them, it would be easy to thrust on their brethren, as “caste” has already been there in
India, with due courtesy of the “Portuguese invention”!

But, why Christians still practice such shameful “divisions” much against the wishes of the Pope? The assertion that, “The divisions which exist among Christians are a scandal to the world,” appears to be applicable globally, as he points specifically. How it could amount to disgrace, dishonour, humiliation, outrage or indignity, they have to explain.

Pope: Christian Divisions a ‘Scandal”

By Brian MurphyAP Religion WriterThu, Nov. 30 2006 09:38 AM ETISTANBUL, Turkey (AP) – Pope Benedict XVI called divisions among Christians a “scandal to the world” at a joint ceremony Thursday with the spiritual leader of the Orthodox Christian church, which split from Catholicism nearly 1,000 years ago.……………………………………

The divisions which exist among Christians are a scandal to the world,” the pope said after joining Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I to mark the feast day of St. Andrew, who preached across
Asia Minor and who is believed to have ordained the first bishop of
Constantinople, now
Istanbul.

Sin, scandal or sanctified? For Christians, sin is a “moral defection”, but every “moral defection” is subjected to interpretation theologically and they can only decide whether it is really defective morally or otherwise. So “sins” are sinning and sinned and no botheration. As it has been fail-safe, fool-proof and above all, infallible, none can ask about it also. Scandal, oh, it is theological again. It is not ordinary scandal for gossiping, gimmick for comments or fraud to be questioned. So if it is sanctified, no discussion in the name of God. This is very tricky in the theological context.

V     Paul exhorts the church in Rome to be gentle and accommodating, not quarrelsome, ‘for the sake of the weaker members’. Don’t judge each other but live and die for the Lord so that you will know that under the judgement of God we are all found wanting. To know your own weakness helps you to be tolerant of others.

V     Then Peter came and said to him, “Lord, if another member of the church sins against me, how often should I forgive? As many as seven times?”

V     Jesus said to him, “Not seven times, but, I tell you, seventy-seven times. (Matthew 18.21-22).V     It is also quoted: “Forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us”. “Do as you would be done by”. V     It amounts to enslaving a person again after his release, as someone is responsible for his release! And in anger his lord handed him over to be tortured until he would pay his entire debt. V     So their heavenly Father will also do to every one of them, if they do not forgive your brother or sister from your heart. (Matthew 18.35). V     So Indian Christians can escape theologically for oppressing and suppressing their brethren putting blame on Supreme Court, Indian Constitution, Hindu religion and so on!

Indian Christians and Theology: Of course, in India, our Christian friends too debate about the rights of “Dalit Christians”! It is evident that the “Dalit Christians” do not fit into Indian Christian social entity or Global Christian status. While they debate about divisions and denominations, here, they are perplexed about the –

V     “division within division” or

V     “denomination within denomination” or V     “division among the denomination” or

V     “denomination within the division” and so on!

Ultimately, every theologian would laugh to know that what is going on in
India is better than the ones happening in USA, Europe and African countries.

After all, their “God” is same only, whether he is prayed at USA, European countries or India, but why the divisions are shame? If there is no caste for Christianity or Christian God, then, it should be applicable to Indian Christians also, as Christianity and Christian God cannot be different for them. Suppose, if they have to accept caste and untouchability, then, their Christianity and God become redundant, because Christianity become unsuccessful and God too failed utterly in their case. They can no longer claim that “Jesus never fails”, as already “Christ” has gone with the “caste”!

Pope, Caste and India: The “Dalit Christians” give memorandum to the Pope accusing the Casteist Hierarchical Church Authorities in India with copies to the Cardinal Secretary of State of Vatican,
Italy, the Apostolic Nuncio to India, New Delhi and various Councils / Congregation / Commissions of Cardinals and Bishops in Vatican. So they in turn bring pressure on the government to cover up their “divisions”, “denominations”, “congregations” etc., working in segregation, racism, racialism and superiority complex. But, who perpetuate caste in India?

N     Pope Gregory XV (1621-1623) formally sanctioned caste divisions in theIndian Church. This papal bull confirmed earlier decisions of the local Church hierarchy in 1599 and 1606. N     The Bull “Bulla Romanae Sodis Antistitis” dated January 31, 1623 accedes to the requests of the missionaries to accommodate themselves to certain caste practices and usages of the new converts. N     The Bull of Pope Gregory XV, “Bulla Romanae Sedis Antistitis”, dated 31 January 1623, accedes to the requests of the missionaries to accommodate themselves to certain caste practices and usages of the new converts.  The Pope was granting this permission only as a provisional and conditional measure.

N     Why can’t the present Pope annul the Bull to prove his egalitarian or utopian position?

If they believe in God, then all discrimination in the name of accepted God and religion should be accepted theologically. If Christian theology itself has such discrimination as exhibited in US and European societies, then, such social discriminations in India cannot be differentiated. When such discriminations, scandals and sins could exist in the advanced, civilized and 100% pure Human-right enforcing countries, why they bother about India?

Christianity, caste and untouchability: In spite of the tall claims made but the Christians, the caste, racism, untouchability and other factors have been there in Christianity. The hundreds of denominations in different countries based on theology, practices, tribes etc., are the direct proof. Pope Gregory XV published a bull sanctioning caste regulations in the Christian Churches of India.

Even the U. N. Commission of Inquiry (1953) into the racial situation in
South Africa reported the Biblical background of inspiration for them to adopt “Apartheid” or “Christian caste system” with untouchability [Genesis. 9.25, Joshua. 9.21, 23 ” 27].

Noah”s curse on his grandson Canaan (Gen. 9:20-27) served as the prime proof text for their twisted arguments but sanctified ones. When Noah exited the ark, he planted a vineyard. He sampled too much of his wine, got drunk, and lay naked inside his tent. Noah had three sons: Shem, Ham, and Japheth. Ham had a son named Canaan. Ham saw his father”s nakedness, but his brothers walked backward into the tent to avoid the sight. When Noah awoke, he put a curse on Ham”s son, declaring that
Canaan “shall be a slave to his brothers.” The drawers of waters have to draw waters for ever and brewer of wood should brew wood forever! For, “Biblical Defenses of Segregation”, see the following site: http://www.h-net.org/~south/archives/threads/biblical.html

Untouchability also finds its way to Bible [Joshua. 9.19]. In
Ireland, there are separate streets for Roman Catholics and Protestants, as each group treats others “untouchables”. Whites treat non-whites accordingly in US and European countries. As the converted Indian Christians follow their God and scriptures faithfully, they follow the same principles in
India. So whether, it is denomination or division, it works faithfully without fail.

Slavery has been a divine approved system [Levi. 25: 44-46; Timothy. 6.11]. Prasadam offered to Jehovah should not be eaten by others [Exo.12:43]. They should not touch things holy to him or offer sacrifice [Levi. 22:25]. Bible should not be taught to others [Jewish Encyclopedia, Vol. 5, p.623; Exo.27:33]. They cannot offer incense [Numbers.16:40]. They should not approach the holy tabernacle i.e, the “Garba Griha” / Sanctum Sanctorum [Numbers 1.51]. In MNcs, do you find any white or foreigner cleaning bathrooms or latrines or engaged in “house-keeping” job??

“Dalit Theology” is the superior theology masqueraded in mere theoretical egalitarianism to fool “Dalits” projecting Jesus as the Super Star Saviour and Christianity to solve all their social problems, suppressing all cold facts, historical truths and the past tract record of Christianity. But, whether Jesus fails or the Pope fails or the Bishops fail, the Indian converted Christians shuld watch carefully and realize the facts.

“Liberation Theology” is nothing but “Christian Communism” with God offered in different garb mainly advocating violence. It advocates violence, terrorism and anti-national activities in a country where it is preached. After the death of Communism and exposure of their deadly acts in Latin American countries, they have turned their attention to “Dalit Theology”. When the million of dollars coming is divided and given to their brethren, the problem is solved. Why then, Bishops loot banks and indulge in such activities?

Theological and political Christians: The dishonest Christians suppress everything and try to fool the gullible SCs and STs projecting that their religion saves them. they could not save their own souls of SCs / STs with dubious methods. There are A to Z Churches with denominations (castes) running into more than 3000 depending upon the nation, language, ethnicity, culture, civilization and other factors. The matrimonial columns appearing in the newspapers and periodicals expose their hypocrisy, as the bride / groom are hunted only on the basis of “caste” and not on the “Christ”!

Crores of Rupees flow into India from abroad to convert
India to Christianity. World Christian Organizations never hide this plan. After the Neogi Commission Report, they have only changed their tactics in routing the money. Political pressure at national and international levels is applied through different cannels to pump money in. only 30-40% is actually spent under the guise of charity, service, and liberation etc., whereas, 60-70% is adjusted in their manipulated accounts duly certified. They have formed their own high castes and they do not want to share profits with the new converts. They treat them just as “natives” counting numbers and sending statistical figures to parent organizations. Thus, the discrimination persists and percolates to bottom reaching new complications and crating new social tensions. Therefore, to divert the issue, as decided by the World Council of Churches and other organizations, they set up different “research groups” to shift the blame to Hinduism and escape. After politicizing, they have tried to internationalize the issue. Whoever Indian writer, journalist or “scholar”, who supports this theory, is received aboard usually USA or Germany and taken care of.

Globalization, Liberalization and Privatization in Christianity: Christianity works globally with all tactics, network and associations. Their operations missionary have been worldwide, the evangelical angles evade all territories and thus international, their goods and services been inter-continental, their funds transfer in large-scale, and thus, everything has to be studied at micro level. Therefore, globalization of godly and theological disputes, internationalization their divine differences, privatization of punishments but liberalization of sins have been unique and exceptiona. They cannot be controlled by any national or international acts and rules. Through WTO, they get all exemptions, double-taxation benefits, of course with many pay-backs. Therefore, there should be limitation at one level.

From scandalous division to fraudulent caste suppression: In the age of Globalization, global flows and religious encounters, the “scandalous division” has to be taken as “technology / theological transfer” taken place in India without any MOU or IPR. That it had entered in to
India in the 16th – 17th centuries and perpetuated, protected, propagated and preserved has been marvelous one. Perhaps, none could have created such more than 400 years working system in
India without after-sales service, upgradation of “technology / theological transfer” and support. The “harvest” / royalty percentage, they get has been enormous in fund flows to the respective country. Only the point is that certain Christian groups want to absorb, indigenize and make it Indigenous one. They tried with all methods – inculturation, inter-religious dialogue, dalit theology, liberation theology and so on. They are reaping the harvest. They sow what they get. So they have to do some R ” D to find out the solutions for the following problems:

V     Why Jesus Christ differentiates their believers? V     Why the Pope discriminate his sons and daughters? V     Why the Bishops separate the sheep with colours?V     Pope called division as “scandal”, then is it not caste here a “fraud”?V     Why then Pope encourage such fraud in
India?
V     Why they should have two types of religion, Jesus and scriptural interpretation one there in the west and another in India?

All these clearly prove that the conversion is also a scandal in
India, even if Pope does not accept in Indian context. It is a scandalous fraud in
India carried on in the name of religion. If the minds are not turned towards Jesus or Christ or Mary or Joseph or Jehovah etc., then, it is shameful, disgraceful, immoral and outrageous for any Christian to convert any Indian in India. The onus lies on them for every subsequent social, political, legal and any other problem or crisis.

But, still it is going on. Can they be asked to get it patented all methods adapted and adopted? It is right time that the hundreds of thousands of missionaries working in India should get registered with the Indian government so that whether what the processes they carry out in their missionary-factories are not harmful to themselves and as well as to India. We can have some sort of theological Pollution Control Board, whenever, they want to dispose their waste, scrap, sludge etc., a they may contain hazardous contents. As they have been given and provided with various exemptions and concessions, it is quite reasonable that they should be answerable to Indians about their processing, and other activities.

VEDAPRAKASH

09-10-2007

A rejoinder to Romila Thapar for her another version appearing under the caption, “Historical Memory without History” Economic and Political Weekly

July 16, 2009
A rejoinder to Romila Thapar for her another version appearing under the caption, “Historical Memory without History” Economic and Political Weekly
Published on October 7th, 2007 In Uncategorized | Views 813 <!– by Vedaprakash –>

http://vedaprakash.indiainteracts.in/2007/10/07/a-rejoinder-to-romila-thapar-for-her-another-version-appearing-under-the-caption-%E2%80%9Chistorical-memory-without-history%E2%80%9D-economic-and-political-weekly/

A rejoinder to Romila Thapar for her another version appearing under the caption, “Historical Memory without History” Economic and Political Weekly—————————————————————————————–

The above EPW version of Romila Thapar has been “ideological” specifically and with explicit “comments” differing from the opinion as appearing in “The Hindu”.

As for the points raised in “The Hindu” have already been dealt with, the points which are not appearing in “The Hindu”, but here alone are taken up and commented upon. First such portions are reproduced for convenience in red colour and then comments / response are given.

“The location of both is uncertain.

It has been argued that the present-day location of Ayodhya may not have been the same as in early times. Buddhist sources locate it on the
Ganga and some argue for a different Ayodhya on the Sarayu. When excavations at Ayodhya were started as part of the project on “Ramayana Archaeology” this question was raised and there was some discussion among archaeologists. Was it a confusion on the part of the authors? Could it have been another place with the same name?

Site names are often relocated in history sometimes as a wish to retain a memory and sometimes to legitimise a new settlement. Or even sometimes when it is ecologically necessary to move elsewhere and the name accompanies the migration. This difference in locating Ayodhya was pointed out by historians at the time of the Ramjanmabhumi movement, but it was dismissed as the distortion of Marxist historians! One does not have to be a Marxist to see common sense. The location of Lanka has been disputed by scholars for the past century and remains unidentified with any certainty. For a variety of reasons many scholars such as Hiralal, Raikrishandas, Paramasiva Iyer, U P Shah and H D Sankalia, locate it in the Vindhyas – in Amarkantak or in Chhota Nagpur – and others locate it in the lower Mahanadi valley in Orissa. The identification with present-day
Sri Lanka is problematic – as has often been pointed out – since Lanka was not the early name for Ceylon.

One of the chronicles of the island, the Mahavamsa, written in the mid-first millennium AD lists a number of early names, possibly imaginary, such as Ojadipa, Varadipa, Mandadipa. But the names more commonly used in a variety of sources are different. The earliest name of the island judging by Indian and Greek and Latin references of the Mauryan and post-Mauryan period was Tamraparni / Tambapanni (Taprobane in Greek). Ashoka in the third century BC in one of his edicts mentions Tamraparni as being at the frontier. Most scholars have identified this with Ceylon as it comes together with a reference to the Cholas, Pandyas and Keralaputtas of south India. A few have suggested that it might refer to the river Tamraparni in the extreme south.

Subsequent to this, the name Sinhala or Sinhala-dvipa was more frequent and rendered in Greco-Latin sources as Silam or Sieledib. The island is also frequently referred to in these sources as Palai Simoundou, the derivation of which is unclear. These references continue into the first millennium AD. At this early stage the name Lanka seems not to be associated with
Ceylon. Perhaps the name Lanka came into usage later”.

Historians have started telling lies, that too suppressing the facts, which are not favourable to them. That Romila is doing that is surprising, perplexing and intriguing. For the argument sake, she puts the half-baked hypotheses as established facts fit for her hypothesis. It is not worth for historians, who swear in the name of “historical method”, “methodology”, “reliability of evidences” and “historical generalizations”. As she has been arguing with the available opinion of the existing and non-existing (i.e, who are no longer with us, say H. D. Sankalia about whom she has referred to), it is responded quoting only from H. D. Sankalia – from his books “Ramayana Myth or Reality, 1973 (mentioned as RMR) and The Ramayana in Historical Perspective, 1982 (mentioned as RHP) without adding anything as follows:

About the location of “Lanka” in Madyapradesh: “Some light on the antiquity of these and other aboriginal tribes can only be thrown if excavations, even on a small scale, are carried out in the present tribal areas. These would show whether the various tribes are comparatively recent migrations in their present habitat or they have been staying there from early Neolithic or chalcolithic times, if not from the earlier Stone Age. This is not an impossible task. First, we have to discover archaeological deposits and then test their antiquity,. Pending this enquiry, we shall conclude, on the evidence of three epigraphical references………from the fifth century AD to the seventeenth century AD…..Gonds…………songs refer to Lanka as the residence of their chief King Ravana” (RHP, p.164).

In mentioning about the hypotheses and theories about the Location of Ramayana Lanka”, she mentions scholars, who deal with the Central Indian-MP hypothesis. Actually, the present opinion is divided into three taking opinion of all scholars locating “Lanka” in the following places:

  1.   Somewhere in Central India.
  2.  The Present Sri Lanka (Ceylon).
  3.  On a submerged area / island on the equator.

But she sticks to one group that is not correct, as she decides side with one group. For taking such sided-stand, she does not give any archaeological excavations taken place after 1973.
That there have been “Ayodhyas” and “Lankas” in South East Asian countries also proves the strong tradition of Ramayama spread beyond present India. In fact, the biggest temple for Vishnu with the largest depiction of Ramayana in sculpture has been there in Ankorwat. Can anybody say that Ramayana evolved there and then spread to
India from the south?

6      In fact, the north-Indian scholars do not know Tamil and Tamil tradition about Ramayana’s impact in the Sangam literature. The third group indirectly point to the existed of land mass long ago. They stoutly deny the hypotheses and theories of Kumarikkandam and purposely objected to and even prohibited papers presented on “Kumarikkandam”.

What archaeology says about Ramayana – its limitations: H. D. Sankalia summarized his version in 1973 (RMR, p.62) as follows:

SUMMARY

(i) There is no doubt that the existence of Ayodhya and other cities mentioned in the Ramayana such as Kausambi, Mithila, Kanyakuja at least by 1000 B.C;

(ii) whether these cities, now called by these names, were at that time respectively known by their names and were ruled by dynasties called Iksvaku and others is very likely, but can be proved when the sites of these cities are excavated;

(iii) the core of the Ramayana story viz Rama, Sita, Lakshmana and the exile of Rama with Sita and her being kidnapped by Ravana – was true and was known at this time (i.e, 1000 BC).

(iv) Ravana belonged very probably to the Gond tribe;(v) Lanka of this Ravana was in Chota Nagpur plateau in East M.P. and probably near
Jabalpur.

All this area, Ramayana expressly tells us, was included in Rama’s kingdom, i.e, (Southern Kosala);(vi)Rama and Lakshmana and the Gonds fought with bows, arrows, and swords, and spears, whereas the Vanaras who were other aboriginals tribes fought with missiles like trees and stones;(vii)All the places occurring in the Dandakaranya can be satisfactorily identified in this region, south of Dandakaranya, south of Prayag. Thus in the original Ramayana, the entire episode took place in a compact geographical area. There is nothing unnatural about it – either the persons or the places.

Thus, it is evident that in his locating Ramayana in a “compact geographical area”, he came to such conclusions with the above conclusions. However, he clearly warned that without excavations nothing could be final. He already pointed out that there were no evidences for Asoka, Chandragupta Maurya etc., as no horizontal excavations had been done (RMR, p.46), historians did not worry and search for Asoka or Chandragupta or questioning their historicity!

“Questions of identifying location and chronology do bother archaeologists and historians, but they need not be of consequence to those whose concern is only with faith, and the distinction has to be reiterated.

Keeping the distance might help in defending historical research. The notion of questioning what is believed is not alien to Indian tradition. When we assess our cultural heritage we often tend to forget or we downplay the fact that rationality and scepticism were very much a part of early Indian thought. This was not limited to the Carvaka / Lokayata thinkers but is also clear from some other schools of philosophy, as indeed it is noticeable in Buddhist and Jaina thought. We have inherited a tradition of questioning, which was not limited to philosophical thought but is apparent in popular literature as well. It would be as well to nurture that tradition.

The description of Ayodhya in the Valmiki Ramayana as an opulent, welldeveloped, extensive urban centre would suggest to the historian a comparison with the urban centres of the Ganga plain in about the sixth-fifth centuries BC, known from texts and from archaeology. The extensive excavations at Ayodhya carried out on different occasions in the last 40 years make it clear that Ayodhya as a city cannot go back much earlier than the mid-first millennium BC. Unlike the textual description, the archaeological evidence does not suggest opulence. This contrast is apparent at more than one site. But allowance has to be made for poetic licence in a text that is acclaimed, and rightly so, as the ‘adi-kavya’, the first of the great poems. The first urban experience of settlements in the Ganga plain doubtless evoked a new vision of the world, certainly one that brought in ideas and activities very different from the previous village settlements. Why poets exaggerated this experience has to be understood. Other kinds of pre-urban habitation in the area go back by a few centuries, but do not reflect the urban life of the Ayodhya of the text.

The existence of habitation by itself is not enough to argue that such locations, occupied by hunter-gatherers, pastoralists and peasants, is evidence enough to identify the site with a city-centre of an epic, even allowing for the normal fantasies of epic poetry. There has to be a detailed co-relation between the textual description and what is excavated – although many archaeologists and historians would still hesitate to accept this as the basis for identification. The correlation can only be clinched when inscribed objects are found common to both textual and archaeological sources. This is one reason why despite extensive excavation, so much of Homer still remains uncertain.

Variants of Rama”

Here, her arguments are grouped specifically as follows and responded:

Locating places and associated chronology: Archaeologists and historians know very well that when the popularity of “historical myths” spread, such myth carrying people after settling at a particular place try to localize the “carried myth”. That is why “Ayodhyas” and “Lankas” are located at many places, not because of archaeological evidences. A pointed out by H. D. Sankalaia, through “historical myths” only, archaeologists try to locate the places and dig. After getting the stratriographcal material evidences, they try to date based o  the exiting belief on the secondary dating methdology. Even if C-14, TL and other primary dating come and they go beyond Asokan period, they are rejected as “pre-historical”. There have been thousands of such archaeological evidences neglected and ignored by the historians, as they live in limited and controlled chronology of history only after Asoka. Is it faith or history? How fusion works here? Who instructed historians not to go before Asoka?

Questioning the belief: “Keeping the distance might help in defending historical research. The notion of questioning what is believed is not alien to Indian tradition. When we assess our cultural heritage we often tend to forget or we downplay the fact that rationality and scepticism were very much a part of early Indian thought. This was not limited to the Carvaka / Lokayata thinkers but is also clear from some other schools of philosophy, as indeed it is noticeable in Buddhist and Jaina thought. We have inherited a tradition of questioning, which was not limited to philosophical thought but is apparent in popular literature as well. It would be as well to nurture that tradition.”

  •  Yes, questioning belief is not at all new in Indian tradition. Similarly, ordinary Indians too have right to question historians, if they go on stand their stand or use their profession with dishonesty.
  •      Historians should tell Indians about the unhistoricity or ahistorical of so-many things printed and circulated in text books meant for schools and colleges, as they are in your name.
  •      You mentioned in your interview to rediff.com:
  • “The point that I have been making all along in the issue that was being discussed during the period of the BJP government about NCERT (National Council of Educational Research and Training) textbooks is the difference between textbooks and research. Textbooks are never at the cutting edge of knowledge because the main purpose of a textbook is to encapsulate the mainstream of accepted knowledge. Those on the frontiers of knowledge, propounding new theories, do not include these in textbooks. Maybe some years from now, when this knowledge becomes part of the mainstream knowledge, it will become part of textbooks”.N     How can you say that, “Textbooks are never at the cutting edge of knowledge because the main purpose of a textbook is to encapsulate the mainstream of accepted knowledge.” How and why then such trash is taught to them? Who decide the mainstream of accepted knowledge in history textbooks? Why can’t the Indian students have the best to appreciate the facts. Historians know very well only “provisional dates”, “hypothesized narrations of the British” and other stories are circulated as “Indian history” for the last 60 to 100 years, even though, majority of Indians do not accept it as “accepted knowledge”. Before that we know very well that we never read such histories in India. Why then it is thrusted on them?
  •      Those on the frontiers of knowledge, propounding new theories, do not include these in textbooks” – who are you to decide? According to Dalton atomic theory, the atoms were indivisible. That is why he named as a+tom=atom (that cannot be divided into broken). But, after the breaking of the Atom, “atom” is retained, but science developed fast. But using the word “fusion”, you try to impose the trash / your own myth rather you faith on the Indian students in the name of ah-history! Is it correct Romila?
  •      Maybe some years from now, when this knowledge becomes part of the mainstream knowledge, it will become part of textbooks”- Well you want some time to decide to know when it would become “part of the mainstream of knowledge”? What are that “knowledge”, “main stream knowledge etc? Do not you have faith or history in making it “part of the mainstream of knowledge”? Or you should have more conviction, belief or somethingele is required to accept it? Really, it is interesting, do not you feel you are becoming part of what you accuse!
  •      There is difference between the questioning of faith by historians and by opposing ideologists and atheists. Now, Romila Thapar expresses views of Karunanidhi as already pointed out. Karunanidhi repeats the unhistorical Aryan-Dravidian myths, Nehru’s lies circulated in the name of history. Romila never declares that Nehru’s “discovery of India” (all his writings cirulasted as history) has become outdated or obsolete to be consigned to dustbin.

Human settlement, habitation: Archaeologists have their methods of “horizontal excavation” and “vertical excavation” depending upon the area of selection.

  • ó  H. D. Saknalia had pointed out that there were no evidences for Asoka, Chandragupta Maurya etc., as no horizontal excavations had been done (RMR, p.46), historians did not worry and search for Asoka or Chandragupta or questioning their historicity, and students believe that they lived and walked on the roads!
  • ó  Is it faith or history? ó  There have been pictures of “Mahavira”, “Budha”, “Asoka”, “Jesus Christ”, “Mohammed” etc., can you swear that they appeared exactly like that during their existence?ó  Do such-single story-line biographed heroes posed before the sculptors and painters to be carved so or painted so?
  • ó  Or at least, can you prove from your so-called “single story-line” biographies of them?ó  Have you evidences for all you talk about based on “conducted horizontal excavations”? ó  Without such excavations and proofs, why you jump to conclusions, that too, selectively and thrust on Indians as final?

“Those that claim to speak in the name of faith in order to confront and beat down knowledge have so far been careful in India not to tangle with scientists. Scientific knowledge is beyond the ken of politicians. Yet scientists in their work do confront issues tied to questions of faith. Where does Indian society stand in relation to these confrontations? Other times and other places have seen fierce conflict as for example, between the Catholic Church and Galileo, and more currently between Darwinism and Intelligent Design. Political lobbies elsewhere opposing scientists have been and are extremely powerful, but nevertheless they do fall short – although only just – of seriously damaging scientific knowledge through seeking the sanction of the state to oppose this knowledge. Part of the reason for this can be attributed to some societies allowing the relative independence of knowledge systems, be it archaeology, history or astrophysics. That this does not seem to be so in India is a qualitative disadvantage.“

Indian scientists have never been involved in “faith or history”, but now they are dragged in proves that politicization has taken place because of the ruling combination in which Sonia-Communists-Dravidiologists have say.

NASA too played a double role by mentioning it as “mythical bridge” 20 years back and now as “man-made bridge”.

I quote the following, which is self-explanatory:

“Do the NASA Photos Depict Ravana’s Lanka? The NASA photo of the “man-made bridge” connecting Rameswaram and Sri Lanka with the note that it was built about 17,50,000 YBP published recently in newspapers is not new one many think. Similar photo was published in 1993 itself (Indian Express March25, 1993) with a report under the caption ‘Rama’s bridge on NASA photo’ (Indian Express, March 24, 1993). In fact, the report was based on two photographs displayed at the Pragati Maidan, New Delhi at that time one that of NASA taken September 14, 1966 displayed with the caption “the mythological land bridge between India and Sri Lanka through Rameswaram and Jaffna” and the other one taken by IRS-IA and enlarged read “Computer-altered image shows the mytrhological land bridge between India and Sri Lanka through Rameswaram and Jaffna”. Therefore, it is evident that after 36 years, USA or the persons behind have decided to change “the mythological land bridge between India and Sri Lanka through Rameswaram and Jaffna” to “man-made bridge” implying that Ramayana period is not 5 millenium BCE, but perhaps goes back to Tretayuga (17,28,000 YBP), as has been held by the Puranas. Anyway, now, it has to be decided historically with the astronomical methods.” (K. V. Ramakrishna Rao, Jurassic Park in Valmiki Ramayana!, Proceedings of the 20th International Ramayana Conference, Tirupathi, Vol.II, 2006).

N     Gionardo Bruno was burned alive, Galileo was jailed. And many other scientisys were tortured and killed. Why even in modern times, Bertrand Russell, the great mathematician was prevented from teaching! Here, of course, the TEMPLE does not do that, as Indians have enough politicians supported by ideologists. In India, it is actually, the virus of “ideology” that erodes every walk of life, perhaps, only next to corruption. They do! Note the fate of historians, archaeologists and others connected with Indian history. Why Romila-type become very “romantic” in “eminent category” where as the others is ignored?

S. R. Rao – Oh, that communal marine-archeologist in spite of his professional excellence always talks about “Dwaraka”, so he is out of IHC, ICHR, etc.

B. B. Lal – Oh another communal element. He always talks about “Ramayana archaeology”, that we do not want! So brand him as RSS-MAN!

Hiralal Gupta – Oh, the old man. Nowadays, he became highly communal. Ignore him (During his presidential address at the Rabindra Sadhan on December 28th, 1990, students shouted and raised slogans accusing his as RSS-wala). For his full speech see, IHC proceeding volume, Calcutta 51st session, pp.1-20).“   Makkanlal – a RSS-wala.“   K. L. Tuteja, Kapilkumar etc – perhaps sabotaged the “Kurukshetra session”!

Grover – Oh, he was the only historian who was always questioning us during the General Body Meeting of IHC, ICHR etc. Any way, he is dead now. So Romila could come out (see the news report that she was attending IHC 2006 with the tag that Grover was no more!).

N. S. Rajaram – Oh, the person who twisted the “horse”. He is a dangerous scientist from NASA, but engaged here for “saffronization of history”. So attack him for Computergraphic manipulation. Suppress all “horse evidences” from IVC.

N     Karunanidhi has already confessed that he has “remote control”. T. R. Balu has exceeded his limits in gate-crashing Saraswati Mahal library, threatened the staff to produce all palm-leaves, manuscripts old and rare books and maps to prove his stand. He took photocopy of them without any care. Staff complained that many of the old documents were broken into pieces because of his handling and forced phocopying. “   At that time no manuscriptologist objected to his barbaric act of handling documents! “   No historian objected to the way the atheist Minister interfering with the Library that have valuable research and historical documents. “   Eminent Historians did not issue any statement. “   Sahmat kept silence! “   Secular harmony slept well!

But, the moment news came that there would be general elections in next year, because of the “Communist treachery”, immediately, Congress started playing RAM-CARD. Now, it is the Congress who started first and Karunanidhi second with all his mouthful stinking abuses spreading all the sides. Ironiclly, after 20 years, you only joined the fray first as a HISTORIAN! And as usual, it is THE HINDU which accommodated you! Of course, there is nothing new that EPW has come out with the full version what you wrote, as THE HINDU itself duly announced!“   So what Indians have to think about all of you? “   Are you historians with real worthiness or politicians or communalists or secularists or retired persons expecting some posting or more than Padbabhushan etc (as you rejected twice)?“   Or what exactly you want?

It is evident that highly controversial portions are edited and published in “the Hindu”, as otherwise, it would be more unhistorical arguments coming from a historian, which perfectly matches with Karunanidhi, Annadurai or E. V. Ramasami Naicker or all put together in “Romila Thapar”.

The last portion of the EPW version is avoided, wherein Romila has dealt with the “financial” and “economic” aspects of the Ramasethu-project, which are highly controversial. Anyway, that she knows that aspect proves that historians, that too, eminent historians of her stature know more about other things in India than Indian history.

VEDAPRAKASH

07-10-2007.