Archive for the ‘historiography’ Category

Black magic, transfer of spirit and all sorceries carried on in the Land of Dravidanadu, where Periyar was born (1)

March 28, 2017

Black magic, transfer of spirit and all sorceries carried on in the Land of Dravidanadu, where Periyar was born (1)

 lord-sri-rama-1971-dk-chappal-garlanded

The Dravidian totalitarian and rationalistic rule during 1960-70s: In Tamilnadu, the Dravidian politicians used to claim about their “rational atheism”, “analytical wisdom” and so on, but in actual life, most of them have been God-believers worshipping God stealthily or by proxy i.e., through their mothers, wives, sisters and daughters. Some of them used to worship gods stealthily in their houses also with puja rooms. However, they say that “I am an atheist, but, I do not interfere with the belief of our family members”. How then, they could interfere with belief of crores of people of Tamilnadu? In public and platform, they pour abuses with the worst filthy language on Hindu religion, Gods and Goddesses and practices that no woman could bear. Yet, they have earned the titles of “Periyar” [big / great person among others or all], “Aringnar” [the only person who knows all], “Kalainjar” [the person who has been expert in all arts / subjects] and so on! Thus, the superiority complex that has been working in their mind set, makes others always to listen to them, accept what they say and none should or could ask any question. During the 1960s, if anybody would question them would be thrashed down.

 DK celebrated Ravana Leela in 1974

During the LPG regime / Internet age, questioning started: This is the way, they have been reigning supreme for the last 60 years. Only their views made public and circulated authoritatively[1]. However, when, internet came, the people started understanding their ambiguous dogma, hollow philosophy and dubious ideology of these groups. The youngsters could easily understand their selective, biased and pre-conceived propaganda carried against one particular religion i.e, Hindu religion[2]. As a ruler, the Dravidian or atheist Chief Minister has to administer and perform his duties as per the Constitutional and other statutory provisions treating all believers. However, in the case of Hindu religion, temples, temple administration, lease and rental of temple and mutt properties, conduct of rituals, rites and ceremonies, they interfered and spoiled many times. Though, the recent past is suppressed, the beating of Rama with chappals and other incidences make the youngsters to realize the duplicity of the Dravidian protagonists. The ganging up of splinter groups of Communists, anti-Hindu ideologists, particularly the Christian and Muslim groups joining them raise questions and they have understood that it is only anti-Hindu and secular or “Paguttaravi”, as being claimed. Under such circumstances, the recent happenings in Tamilnadu exposes their another ugly face of them.

 DK celebrated Ravana Leela in 1974- burned

Annadurai suddely died in 1969: C. N. Annadurai from high caste Mudaliar community was in power during the period 1967 – 1969. However, he fell ill due to excessive usage of tobacco substances. In September 1968 Annadurai went to New York for medical treatment and admitted in the hospital. After diagnosis, it was found out that there was malignant growth in his gullet and hence he was operated for Cancer in the gullet at the Memorial Sloan–Kettering Cancer Center. He returned to Chennai in November 1968 and continued to address several official functions against medical advice. His health deteriorated further and he died suddenly on 3 February 1969 within three months returning from USA after sugery and treatment. His cancer was attributed to his habit of chewing tobacco. However, some of the family members doubted about his sudden death. When Karunanidhi immediately took over as CM, people resented about his haste action.  They questioned why the senior pontiff Sri Chandrasekhara Saraswati of Kanchi Mutt wore spectacles as to why God could not have rectified his eyesight without glasses. But, here, none questioned as to why the science allowed man to die in that way in spite of the treatment etc. Later, MGR was also subjected to similar conditions. M. R. Radha attempted to kill MGR (on January 12, 1967), of course, he was not in power. After becoming CM, he was also not having proper health (in 1983 kidney problem developed), admitted to Brooklyn hospital US, returned after kidney transplant on February 4, 1985, but had to get treatment again and again in US and died on December 24, 1987.

Fire walk by the DK

Dravidian brand of astrologers, predictors and magicians: When the DMK came to power, the first thing, they did was to legalize the marriages performed under the “Pakuthtarivi” / “Suyamariyadhai” categories, as such marriages were held null and void in the courts. The rationalism did not work with the scientific judiciary system. Thus, they became cautious in dealing with social issues. The Dravidian politicias have been interested in astrology, auspicious time and date, black magic and all sorts of such superstitious practices, irrational rites and credulous rituals. Though, they denounce everything in public, in private, they practiced and hence their brand of Dravidian astrologers, predicting experts and magicians have been developed in due course and they have to keep the secrets in person, not to tell anybody in public and carry on their business, to safeguard their interests. That is why Karunanidhi used to hesitate to enter the Brahadheswarar temple, but wear yellow shwal as per the advice of his “asthana jyodhidar”, court / personal astrologer. Under such circumstances, the current events are to be analyzed.

Dravida fire-pot imitating

The antics, gimmicks and counter-rituals of of Dravida Kazhagam and allied groups: The Dravidar Kazhagam used to play gimmicks by imitating the  ritual of coconut breaking, fasting during eclipses, firewalk, carrying pots of burning coal, spiking one’s tongue and body with iron hooks, the concept of auspicious time, astrology, palm reading etc[3]. Though, they used to criticize only Hindu religion for the so-called “ritualism”[4], they close eyes, when they themselves follow such “ritualistic” practices, i.e, respecting the statues of EVR, Maniammai, celebrating birth and death days, garlanding and showering the idols with flowers. However, they never reenact the “crucifixion” of the Christians and bleeding beatings of “Shia Muslims” exposing their hypocrisy. Again, when Jayalalita was in hospital, the followers carried on all devoted rituals and rites praying all gods to save her. Incidentally, they were carried on in the most “secular” way, in the sense, Christians and Muslims have also participated. Therefore, tactfully, the DK groups kept silence to prove their ideology!

Was black magiv involved inn the death of Amma

Was Jayalalita died because of black magic?: The Daily Mail, UK carried a news item as follows[5]: “A leading astro guru in Chennai has said that Tamil Nadu chief minister J Jayalalithaa is a victim of black magic which has left her hospitalised since September, 2017. Not willing to identify himself for security reasons, the spiritual guru said Jayalalithaa has suffered from bad health because she has too many rivals. “It’s not just people from the rival party (DMK) who have spent huge money on tantriks to damage Jayalalithaa’s health. “I have no hesitation in saying that she has detractors even within her own party (AIADMK) who wanted to see her suffer,” he said. News on the health condition of Jayalalithaa is being kept a top secret. She is admitted in Apollo hospital in Chennai. Apart from a team of in-house specialists, doctors from the AIIMS New Delhi and a critical care specialist from London, are also involved in ensuring the CM is now stable. The astro guru also said it was quite possible Jayalalithaa’s arch rival M Karunanidhi could also be suffering from bad health due to tantrik spells. “Rivalry in political circles is very common and it would be wrong to say only one political party indulges in black magic and sorcery. This is noholds barred…,” he said”.

Was black magiv involved inn the death of Amma-2

The position and condition when Jaya was not feeling well (September to December 2016): What we can understand from this, are the following points[6]:

  1. Not willing to identify himself for security reasons, the spiritual guru said Jayalalithaa has suffered from bad health because she has too many rivals.
  2. “It’s not just people from the rival party (DMK) who have spent huge money on tantriks to damage Jayalalithaa’s health.
  3. “I have no hesitation in saying that she has detractors even within her own party (AIADMK) who wanted to see her suffer,” he said.
  4. News on the health condition of Jayalalithaa was being kept a top secret.

Thus, the nexus between the Dravidian politicians and the tantriks came out publically in the media. Ironically, none of the Dravidian ideologists like K. Veeramani, Kali Pungundran, “Viduthalai” Rajendran, Kolattur Mani and others refuted this, but, kept quite. Whom they were meeting, how the money paid, where the rituals taking place – the details – nothing known or revealed to anybody. Under such circumstances, the black magic affairs of one Karthikeyan came just after the death of Jayalalitha on 05-12-2016.

© Vedaprakash

28-03-2017

[1] In 1956 August first, Dravidia Kazhagam asked the volunteers to bum pictures of Lord Rama as the organization considered Ramayana as anti-women and anti lower castes etc. one Dravidia Kazhagam leader in the name of Thiruvarur Thangarajan wrote a new version of Ramayana way Rama was portrayed as a villain. The Dravidia Kazhagam film star M.R. Radha staged the play throughout the state. The Government led by the Chief Minister Kamaraj immediately banned the play but Dravidia Kazhagam after obtaining court’s pem1ission staged the play in selected towns.

[2]  At the instigation of Thiru E. V. Ramaswami Naicker, the Leader of Dravida Kazhagam, several tableaus depicting the picture of Gods Rama and Muruga were being beaten by a chappal in a procession held at Salem on 23rd and 24th January 1971. When one individual printed the photos of the procession, the DMK government banned and seized the posters.  The Government of Tamil Nadu issued a Notification G. O. Ms. No. 491 Home dated 12-2-1971 directing the posters to be forfeited to the Government on the ground that the said posters contained matters which promote or intend to promote the feelings of enmity and hatred between different classes of citizens of India or which is deliberately or maliciously intended to outrage the religious feelings of any such class by insulting the religion or the religious feelings of that class.

Madras High Court – Chinna Annamalai vs The State Of Tamil Nadu on 24 February, 1971; Equivalent citations: AIR 1971 Mad 448, 1971 CriLJ 1569, (1971) IIMLJ 158; Author: K Reddy; Bench: K Reddy, Ganesan, Maharajan.https://indiankanoon.org/doc/1710030/

[3] Frontline, Going backward, R. Krishnakumar in Thiruvananthapuram and In Dravidian land, R. Ilangovan in Chennai in Frontline, Print edition : October 4, 2013.

[4] http://www.frontline.in/cover-story/thriving-business/article5137608.ece

[5] Daily Mail, ‘Her enemies are making her suffer’: Top Astro Guru says CM Jayalalithaa is a victim of BLACK MAGIC, By MAIL TODAY BUREAU, PUBLISHED: 23:52 BST, 26 October 2016 | UPDATED: 00:16 BST, 27 October 2016

[6] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/indianews/article-3875860/Her-enemies-making-suffer-Astro-Guru-says-CM-Jayalalithaa-victim-BLACK-MAGIC.html

The politics of burning effigies in 2016 by the Congress cons, Dravidian dons and JNU junkies!

October 14, 2016

The politics of burning effigies in 2016 by the Congress cons, Dravidian dons and JNU junkies!

ravana-lila-english-bannerDravidar Kazhagam’s racial approach continues even in 2016:  The misguided Dravidar Kazhagam, of various banners still, believes in Aryan-Dravidian racial hypotheses and theories” and work emotionally with raid radicalism. The day after Dussera was celebrated with the burning of effigies of King Raavan in many parts of the country on 12-10-2016, as announced, about 40 members of the Thanthai Periyar Dravidar Kazhagam [TPDK] landed at the Sanskrit College at Mylapore in Chennai on 13-10-2016 Wednesday to burn effigies of Ram, Sita and Lakshmanan[1].  The group had originally planned to hold the event outside the Madras Sanskrit College of Chennai to protest against the institution’s version of the Ramayana, but it was later shifted to a spot about a kilometre away due to police intervention[2]. While 11 of them were remanded under Section 285 of Indian Penal Code, 12 members of a Hindu group were detained near Sanskrit college in Mylapore[3]. Thus, the media differed in reporting the event.

ravana-lila-tamil-bannerPDK’s attempt to hold Ravan Leela flops[4]: Deccan Chronicle reported wth this caption. The attempt by Periyar Dravidar Kazhagam members to celebrate the Ravan leela deifying the demon king and projecting him as Dravidian stalwart, while belittling Lord Ram, turned into a fiasco with the police taking 55 persons of PDK into custody on Wednesday. Even before the members could assemble and burn an effigy in front of Sanskrit College, Mylapore, in the city on Wednesday evening, the police pre-empted their move and arrested 55 persons. The PDK had announced to stage Ravan leela as the outfit believed that Ravan was a Dravidian and burning his image during Dusshera celebrations in many parts of India amounted to “mocking” the Dravidians. “This is only a bid to stoke controversy and is intended to insult the Hindu gods and hurt the sentiments of the believers,” Hindu Makkal Katchi state president Arjun Sampath said reacting to the development. The staunch Hindu outfit has demanded the police to detain the PDK members under NSA and prevent such incidents in future. “The PDK is taking things a bit too far. The attempt to hold Ravan leela is an assault on our culture and it is highly condemnable,” Mr Sampath said[5].

lord-sri-rama-1971-dk-chappal-garlandedWhy Ravan leela? – the racist question asked by modernists!: The pro-Muslim media “Scroll.in” reported differently. This was the Periyarist group’s answer to Ram Leela – Ravanan Leela to demonstrate their opposition to the Ram Leela celebrations that depict the victory of King Ram over Raavan, who, according to Indian mythology, had kidnapped Ram’s wife Sita[6]. Amidst tight security, and all efforts of the police to stall the event, the members of the fringe group did manage to burn a few effigies, including that of Lord Ram[7]. Kumaran / Tinker Kumaron, a member of the TDPK said, “Every year, in North India, Ram Leela is celebrated by burning effigies of Raavan, This is being done to insult South Indians. We consider Raavan to be a Dravidian….As per our plan we broke the police chain around us and burned the effigy. 11 persons who were involved in burning effigies have been remanded by police.”

%e0%ae%a4%e0%af%8b%e0%ae%b4%e0%ae%b0%e0%af%8d-%e0%ae%a4%e0%ae%bf%e0%ae%b0%e0%af%81%e0%ae%95%e0%af%8d%e0%ae%95%e0%af%81%e0%ae%ae%e0%ae%b0%e0%ae%a9%e0%af%8d-%e0%ae%9a%e0%af%86%e0%ae%a9%e0%af%8dWhy is the President participating in Ram leela programme?: Speaking to The Hindu[8], G. Ramakrishnan, general secretary, Thanthai Periyar Dravidar Kazhagam, said that the act was a reaction to the celebration of Ram Leela as a part of Dusshera celebrations across North India, a festival in which the effigy of mythological character Ravanan is set on fire symbolically to represent victory of Lord Ram over Ravanan. “To us, Ramayana, though a mythological story, was a Aryan-Dravidian conflict where Lord Ram was shown to have won against Ravanan, who we consider as a Dravidian. The epic represents Ram as a God and Ravanan as a monster. This is the basis of our opposition,” he said. Criticising the recent celebrations at the Red Fort lawns, which was attended by several high-profile dignitaries including President Pranab Mukherjee, and Congress president Sonia Gandhi, Ramakrishnan wondered if India really was a secular country. “Why is the President participating in such a programme? He is the president to whole of India,” he said. It is evident that these people are behaving in this way, knowing the truth that the whole country has been celebrating for many years. Even hundreds years back, it was celebrated in Asfganistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh and other countries.

%e0%ae%a4%e0%ae%aa%e0%af%86%e0%ae%a4%e0%ae%bf%e0%ae%95-4Belief in race, racism and racialism: Condemning Ramayana’s ‘racist portrayal’ of ‘Dravidians as demons’, the TPDK said that the Ravanan Leela was their way of protesting against Hindu cultural hegemony. “It does not matter that ‘Ram Leela’ is not celebrated in Tamil Nadu. In Delhi, effigies of Ravanan and his two brothers are burnt, we believe that they are Dravidians and burning their effigies is mocking us. So to stop that, we have decided to celebrate ‘Ravana Leela’ in which we will be burning the effigies of Ram, Sita and Lakshman,” S Kumaran, another TDPL leader had told TNM earlier. He also added that they had written a letter to Prime Minister asking him to stop Ram Leela in Delhi but they did not get any response from his office.  “It is clearly proven once again that the rulers of India will never care to respect the feelings of the Southerners,” said the group. “If they have cared so, then they would not have ventured to burn the effigies of the three choicest heroes of the Dravidian race in the guise of honouring a hero of religious epic.” Kumaron said that this protest against Ram Leela celebrations gathered momentum in 1974, when the group sent a letter to Prime Minister Indira Gandhi demanding a stop to the festivities. But at that time too, they received no reply. Over the next few decades, there have been at least three instances when the group has burnt effigies of Ram, and and been arrested for this.

%e0%ae%aa%e0%af%8b%e0%ae%b2%e0%af%80%e0%ae%9a%e0%ae%bf%e0%ae%b8%e0%af%8d-%e0%ae%aa%e0%af%82%e0%ae%9f%e0%af%8d%e0%ae%b8%e0%af%8d-%e0%ae%95%e0%ae%be%e0%ae%b2%e0%ae%bf%e0%ae%b2%e0%af%8d-%e0%ae%aeSplinter groups playing dangerous games: Veeramani and “Viduthalai” Rajendran had a break and Rajendran started “The Thanthai Periyar Dravidar Kazhagam” in 2012, claiming that they would follow the teachings of social activist and politician EV Ramaswami Naicker or Periyar, who had also questioned the portrayal of Raavan in the popular version of the Ramayana. As reported in Outlook, some of the questions posed by Periyar were, “Isn’t it true that Ravaan abducted Sita as an honourable revenge for the insult heaped upon his sister? Isn’t it a Brahminical ploy to give the colour of lust to a most honourable kidnapping?” The DK spinter groups have always been attacking the soft target – the Brahmins! They cruelly cut a poor Brahmin at West Mambalam some years ago with aruval (study sword), and another Brahmin in Mylapore last year (April 2015)[9].

%e0%ae%a4%e0%ae%ae%e0%ae%bf%e0%ae%b4%e0%ae%95%e0%ae%a4%e0%af%8d%e0%ae%a4%e0%ae%bf%e0%ae%a9%e0%af%8d-%e0%ae%aa%e0%ae%be%e0%ae%b0%e0%af%8d%e0%ae%aa%e0%af%8d%e0%ae%aa%e0%ae%a9%e0%ae%bf%e0%ae%af-%e0%ae%8eSplinter DK groups attack Brahmins following the path of Periyar: MT Saju writes that in the 1970s too, Periyarists conducted Ravanan Leelas. He reminds us that after Periyar died, his wife Maniyammai burnt the effigy of Ram at Periyar Thidal in 1974[10]. But since then, it has not been a popular event. Thus, for some reason, some people want to create ruckus now. Dravidian movement analyst K Thirunavukarrasu said that this anti-Ram sentiment has existed since the beginning of the Dravidian movement in the 1920s. The 1940s saw the publication of works such as Raavana Kaviyam (Raavana Epic) by Pulavar Kuzhandhai and Iranyan Allathu Inayatra Veeran(Hiranya or the Unparalleled Warrior) by Bharatidasan, which eulogised the characters Raavan and Hiranyakashyap, who had been depicted as asuras in popular versions of Indian mythological stories. “The asuras have been depicted in these stories in a manner that denigrates Dravidians,” said Thirunavukarrasu. As Periyar used to say, “If you see a snake and Brahmin, leave snake but kill Brahmin”, these goons are following such bloody method.

jnu-modi-effigy_2016Dravidian King Ravana was a Brahmin: The atheist Dravidian ideologists do not believe Puranas, yet, they believe them for their myth-making. As they believe Aryan-Dravidian race theories, at one side they claim that Ravana was a Brahmin! “The intention of the Dravidian movement is to oppose the depiction of Dravidas as asuras in all these plays.” Tamil writer D Ravikumar said that according to the version of the Ramayana written by medieval Tamil poet Kambar, Raavan was not a Dravidian King but a Brahmin. “If you look at this from the lens of Kambar’s Ramayana, it is hard to say how he came to be associated with Dravidian identity,” said Ravikumar. Ravikumar said that around the 1960s, Tamil Nadu politics was based on antagonism towards North India, Brahminism, Aryans and Hindi. The protest against Ram Leelas rode on this sentiment, he said. But in the 1970s and 1980s, the issue became irrelevant. When the main parties in power were all Dravidian parties, it was no longer a vote-catching subject. “Now, this has been revived by some groups after the BJP has come to power,” said Ravikumar. “Raavan acts as an anti-BJP symbol. But we don’t know how successful it will be.”

%e0%ae%b0%e0%ae%be%e0%ae%ae%e0%ae%9a%e0%af%87%e0%ae%a4%e0%af%81-%e0%ae%95%e0%ae%b0%e0%af%81Karunanidhi playing Ravana (1998): On October 1, 1998, Anoor Jagadeesan, president of PDK and 16 others were arrested when they tried to burn the effigies of Rama and Lakshmana in Chennai[11]. On October 18, 1998, Karunanidhi asserted that[12], “….if you insult Ravana, you are insulting me”. In Ramasethu issue also, he passed remarks asking “In which engineering college Rama studied” (so that he could build a bridge). Even, Kamal Hasan also used to utter that he came from Ravan geneology or something like that!

r-s-manohar-as-ravanaIlangeswaran vs Ravana Leela: R. S. Manohar (1925-2006) used to portray all Asuras as heroes – Surapadman, Sisupalan, Narakasuran, Indrajit, Sukrachariyar etc., in his characteristic projection in his dramas, which were successful in 1970-80s. He too projected Ravana as “Ilankeswaran”, the Lord of Lanka, but, not the Dravidian way of contempt, hatred and blasphemy. In fact, he followed the Puranic narration and other hagiographical details. Understandably, he was never supported or honoured by the Dravidian leaders or even Periyar for his donning Asuras! And now, the fringe elements have started the old game, when the Dravidian CM, that too, a lady has been ailing in hospital.

the-ravan-effigy-burned-at-jnuModi effigy burned by the Congress and JNU students[13]: A group of students of Jawaharlal Nehru University (JNU) on 11-10-2016 Tuesday burnt the effigy of Prime Minister Narendra Modi, BJP chief chief Amit Shah, Mahatma Gandhi’s killer Nathuram Godse and others to mark the “victory of truth over falsehood” on the occasion of Dussehra. Members of the Congress-backed National Students’ Union of India (NSUI) on Tuesday night celebrated Dussehra by burning the effigy of Modi and others to protest against the growing interference of the Centre in universities and attacks on Dalits.“We celebrated the victory of truth over falsehood in a modern and democratic country by burning effigies. For us Modi and RSS are symbol of untruth,” said Sunny Diman, an NSUI member[14]. So, the Congress party too has taken such method of politics of burning effigies exploiting the occasion of “Viyayadasami”. Ironically, the Congress leaders have been questioning the successful surgical operations on these days at one side and indulging in such cheap and vulgar activities at another side.

© Vedaprakash

14-10-2016

the-ravan-effigy-burned-at-jnu-with-students

[1] The News Minute, Dravidian Ravanan Leela: Periyarists burn Ram effigy even as police try to stop them, by TNM Staff, Thursday, October 13, 2016 – 11:31.

[2] Scroll.in, Why a Dravidian fringe group burnt effigies of Ram and Sita in Chennai this year, by Vinita Govindarajan. October 13, 2016, 8 pm.

[3] The Hindu, TPDK Cadres arrested in chennai for burning effigy of Lord Ram, Chennai 13, 2016, Updated: October 13, 2016 07:23 IST

[4] Deccan Chronicle, PDK’s attempt to hold Ravan Leela flops, Published Oct 13, 2016, 7:00 am IST, Updated Oct 13, 2016, 7:01 am IST

[5] http://www.deccanchronicle.com/nation/in-other-news/131016/pdks-attempt-to-hold-ravan-leela-flops.html

[6] http://scroll.in/article/818922/why-a-dravidian-fringe-group-burnt-effigies-of-ram-and-sita-in-chennai-this-year

[7] http://www.thenewsminute.com/article/dravidian-ravanan-leela-periyarists-burn-ram-effigy-even-police-try-stop-them-51281

[8] http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/chennai/tpdk-cadres-arrested-in-chennai-for-burning-effigy-of-lord-ram/article9213004.ece

[9] http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/chennai/six-dvk-men-held-for-attacks-on-priests-in-chennai/article7127953.ece

[10] http://epaperbeta.timesofindia.com/Article.aspx?eid=31807&articlexml=TWIST-TO-THE-TALE-Reviving-Ravanlila-to-counter-13102016006020

[11] Ajith Pillai and A. S. Paneerselvan, Good Or Evil? The  Politics Of  Ravana, Outlook, Novemver.2, 1998.

[12] http://www.outlookindia.com/magazine/story/good-or-evil-the-politics-of-ravana/206444

[13] The Hindustan Times, Delhi: Students burn effigy of Modi, Shah, Godse at JNU campus on Dussehra, HT Correspondent, Hindustan Times, New Delhi, Updated: Oct 13, 2016 10:08 IST

[14] http://www.hindustantimes.com/delhi/students-burn-effigy-of-modi-shah-at-jnu-campus-dubbing-them-as-ravana/story-twLk2C05xBVCRaVR5ScVvO.html

Hindu Maya and Christian Cyber-missions, evangelism and Implications

November 5, 2012

Hindu Maya and Christian Cyber-missions, evangelism and Implications

Iwrote this five years back anticipitating the Chritian propaganda unleashed through cyber-space with the blessings of MNCs. With the LPG, they target Indian society easily with their aggressive marketing capabilities using all methods without any code of ethics or morality. Considering the relevancy and context, I post this here without any change salvaging from Internet.

 Cyber-mission on war-path to attack India – the First Crusade may start at any time: On 30th July, 2007, John Dyal was interviewed by the NDTV news reader and repeatedly asked about the Catholic Cyber Conversion adopted and adapted recently. Reacting to this, vigorously and crazily John Dyal started justifying it. When persisted how religion could be brought to the virtual world, he blurted out that “Why not” – Hindus say that the entire world is Maya. Then, it was shown as if the TV crew get opinion of Delhi-students with Christian, half-Christian-half-Hindu and Hindu names accepting and supporting such Cyber-conversion, evidently without understanding the implications. Thus, it appears that Vatican has incorporated Cyber-mission in its agenda and there would be more Roberto de Nobilis, Beschis, Bede Griffiths, Hans Staffners, Clooneys, and so on with laptops with wireless internet connections. Of course, they started already.

 Definition of Cyber-crusade / Holy-War / Jihad: John Edmiston discussed about, “Missions in Cyberspace: The Strategic Front-Line Use Of The Internet In Missions“, in www.cybermissions.org. He claims: “One of these means is the use of theInternet. And one of the most exhilarating frontiers of mission today is cyber-missions; the frontline use of IT to evangelize and disciple the nations. In this article we will keep the focus on cross-cultural mission web sites and strategic approaches to ministry online such as web-evangelism, email discipleship, web-based TEE and icafes as a church-planting strategy. This paper will review the potential, the actual uses and the successful implementation of Internet-based missionary outreach and put the case for missionary societies to have an Internet evangelism department headed by a Field Director – Cyberspace. I have intentionally excluded the traditional uses of computing in missions or the use of the Internet for mono-cultural ministry as this has already been extensively reviewed elsewhere (for instance in the work of Leonard Sweet)” [the key words are given in colour].

 Hindus untochables or experts in Cyber-religion? Can Hindus match for this? Are they prepared to take? Yes, definitely, Hindus are capable considering the IT workers and experts in the field. But, the Christians think differently, if all these Hindu guys and girls are converted, what would happen to Hindu religion? Yes, with single stroke, they can strategically enslave the Cyber-untochables and John Daya & Co., would start fighting for them also starting a Cyber-Dalit Liberation Front, All India Cyber-SC-ST Federation for which D’Souza, Udit Raj and others  might be President, Secretary and so on sending reports to Bush, Bill Gates, Vatican, UN and what not.

 They give figures like this: Online Language Populations (September 2002): 

English 36.5%;Chinese 10.9%,

Japanese 9.7%,

Spanish 7.2%,

German 6.7%,

Korean 4.5%,
Italian 3.8%,
French 3.5%,Portuguese 3.0%,

Russian 2.9%,

Dutch 2.0% (Source: Global Reach)

We should have corresponding figures for users in Hindi, Tamil and other languages.The English includes, Hindu users also.

 

Warning – the anti-Hindu groups would gang together: Of course, they tie-up with Muslims, secularists, atheists, anti-Hindu groups etc., or they themselves create such web-missions with such names and attack Hindus by all means. Then, they would have MOU with non-Catholic evangelists of US and EURO countries with the respective Presidents agreeing with the Pope, the Head of Vatican City-State. As the anti-Hindu groups irrespective of their ideologies, gang together on stages in every meeting, seminar or conference, so also they join to attack.

 

The treatment of Hindu-men under Christian cyber-masters / employers: As the employers are Christians, they have already started pressure on Hindu IT workers and experts. Slowly, it would turn in different direction. When one young Indian software engineer went to US and working there, his fellow Americans used to ask him about the “sandal paste mark” on his forehead etc. Though, he used to give general explanation for their understanding, they used to argue with religious vigor. After some days, one of Americans gave him a Bible, asked to him to read and come for discussion. This is very similar to what has been happening in gulf-countries, where the sheik-masters used to try with Hindu-professionals.

 The treatment of Hindu-girs and women under Christian cyber-masters / employers: With Hindu girls and women, they behave differently. Starting with commenting on their mode of dress, colour etc., slowly, they praise about their beauty and so on. Of course, the Supreme Court judgment and direction about the treatment of women at work places applicable in India would not be applicable there and we do not know as to whether any equivalent Act, Rules or provisions are to check such “women teasing” [I do not want to use eve teasing, as they might take it as a right. Yes, as Jehovah teased Eve, the fundamentalist, fanatic Christians could think that it is their right to tease women following their Commandment of God].

 Infiltration into, manipulation of and hacking Internet groups: Some Hindu experts and professionals have been successful enough to bring out facts about Indian history, culture, tradition, heritage and civilization in internet. Reading such websites, many educated and learned students, scholars and even professors have been convinced about the logic and facts presented. After all, none could say other than what one generally accept to say “2 + 2 = 4”. Of course, mathematician experts, number theorists and analysts may disagree, that is healthy, intellectual and highly useful for humanity.

 Be careful about Carcinogenic Cyber Christians: Assessing the success or rather the impact, the Cyber-missions may all out to attack. So they start infiltrated with their cyber-expertise. As virus has been there affecting humanity, it has been there here also and we see the results. So we have to be careful about Carcinogenic Cyber Christians, who may be otherwise known as respectfully hackers and so on. The conversion of Indian civilization to Hindu civilization might be the reason for such cyber-invasion and infiltration.

 Hindus should not be just satisfied with Virtual pujas, Bajans, philosophy etc: Now, many Hindus are interested in Computers, Internet etc., because, they get wonderful-colourful pictures of Gods and Goddesses, Bajan-downloads, virtual pujas with all paraphernalia and so on.

 Of course, there are inter-religious skirmishes, philosophical debates with arrogance as usual, “I am modest treading middle-path or secular” type discussions. Here, over-zealous, pride and arrogant postings should be avoided, as the opponents may use such arguments against Hindus.

 Instead, they can discuss and debate about the rites, rituals and ceremonies conducted by them in different countries, how they differ, why divergence, why such differences are not made to India-criticizing scholars, etc., would be worthwhile.

 Hindus may get many e-mails regularly bombarding them to accept Christ for redemption. Of course from the desperate fundamentalist-fanatic categories, they may get threatening mails like “If you do not accept, you will go to hell” and so on. Of course, Hindus may get pornography also along with Jesus Christ or the Word of God with Satanic temptation! [I am not writing this with any wrong impression on Christians, with the past experience with Christians. My friends and I received hundreds of such letters, pamphlets and books from Christians, when Christian issues were discussed in Indian Express and other journals]. As time and space change, the tactics change but old-habits may not change.

 They may post some issues and divert or lead them to ticklish issues resulting in controversies. They may rehash the same old “Aryan-Dravidian”, anti-Brahmin like stuff. They may make personal attacks as a last resort. Or worst, they would accuse Hindus as “Hindutva-wadis”, “Saffron brigade”, “Hindu fundamentalists”, “Sanga parivar” and so on. Anyway, truth triumphs always.

 That is why I use to say often, we have to identify the Hindu-baiters, Hindu-enemies and Hindu-betrayers, expose them to all and treat them as such, as Hindu society cannot and could not produce or have such elements.

 Oh Hindus be ready.

kkVedaprakash <vedamvedaprakash@…>
To: hinducivilization@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 8:22:30 PM
Subject: [hc] Hindu Maya and Christian Cyber-missions, evangelism and Implications.

The so-called 300 / 3000 Ramayanas: The Dravidian propaganda

March 6, 2012

The so-called 300 / 3000 Ramayanas: The Dravidian propaganda

 By Sri Vedaprakash, March 16, 2008
 
Note: This topic is again and again brought to the notice of the readers. However, the atheists, the Dravidian propagandists, Communists, Christians and Muslims hiding under such banners again and again rake up the issue without reading Ramayana. Unfortunately, they even do not read what these Ramanujan, Paukla and others have written. Yet, they go on rehash the stuff. Therefore, I have to point out their hollowness to plant such mischievous postings appearing then and there.
Ramayana once again[1]!:Ever since the Sethu-Samuthram controversy has cropped up, the Dravidian ideologists, Karu’s Court Historians[2] and others ganged up together circulating the old-stories as authentic histories. Of course, the propaganda carried on by this hysterical gang has parallel only in Hitler’s camp. Of course, any reader can note it is the Black Parivar[3] and the Red Parivar[4] would very often take the Hitler-stick to beat others, but they do not realize that they have been following only Hitler. Coming to the point, now their main attack has been against Rama and Ramayana and therefore, the Karu’s Court historians started digging up old polemical writings, scurrilous pamphlets and anti-Hindu literature to serve their perverted purpose.

The “Viduthalai” [5] (March 14th and 13th dated), the DK-mouth piece, but with the blessings of Karu has brought out one brief of A. K. Ramanujam’s paper “Three Hundred Ramayanas”. T. R. Balu has made a visit and met Karu on 14th. Therefore, the coincidence can be noted and there would be raking up the issue again. The Communist super intelligent leaders have also started the nonsensical blabbering that Ramayana is myth and so on.

The Dravidian Love for Paula Richman: Recently, the Dravidian protagonists have again started their blasphemy against Sri Rama under the guise of historical research, analytical wisdom, Aryan-Dravidian race hypotheses[6] , their (Aryan-Dravidian) continuous struggle-for- ever in India and other ideologies. Incidentally, now, one way or the other, as they have drawn attention to Paula Richman’s book, “Many Ramayanas”, it is imperative to read what exactly, she mentions about the subject, which has been so fascinated to these atheist rabble-rousers. I have read the book carefully and particularly, the interpretations, many times to understand the psyche behind it. Actually, the whole story has not been new Indian scholars, researchers and at least, those who know about the origin of Ramayana[7]. A. K. Ramanujam’s paper[8] “Three Hundred Ramayanas” appears in “Many Ramayanas” of Paula Richman.

The book is nothing but compilation of articles of different personalities, purportly to look into the diversity of a narrative tradition in South Asia. Narrative, rendering, oral tradition, from oral to writing and vice versa, translation etc., can be entertained only literary criticism, when such liberality of literature is there in a society. Where, the thought process is control, such exercise cannot be undertaken. In fact, in many non-Indian societies, such narrative, rendering, oral tradition, from oral to writing and vice versa, translation etc., had been done away long back. Even today in the so-called modern, civilized, advanced, progressed, etc., times, such exercise is not possible in other non-Indian literature. Therefore, the literary critics should understand and appreciate the nuances, before criticizing the “many Ramayanas” or sending wrong signals.

Paula Richman has stories of A. K. Ramanujan, Frank E. Reynolds, Kathleen E. Erndl, David Shulman, Velcheru Narayan Rao, Clinton Seely, Staurt H. Blackburn, Paula Richman, Patricia Y. Mumme, Philip Lutgendorf, and Ramdas Lamb discuss about such narratives etc., and it appears as English rendering of any Tamil Pattimandram discussing the very old questions of mutilation of Surpanaka, Sita’s fire ordeal, etc. Unfortuinately, the sole aim of the compilation appears to deride, disparage and denigrate by choosing the topic under the guise research with historical camouflage.

300 or 3000 Ramayanas?: That there are “300 Ramayanas” as exactly counted has not been the original idea of A. K. Ramanujan, but, as he himself confessed that it belongs to one “student of Ramayana”, Canille Bulcke[9], who only counted so – exactly 300! Then to add his contribution, A. K. Ramanujan mentions[10] that according to a Kannada scholar[11] there are more than a thousand Ramayanas in Kannada! Then, adds that according to a Telugu scholar[12] there are more than a thousand Ramayanas in Telugu! At least, the Telugu scholar appears to be probably reasonable, as he said “more than a thousand”! It is not known why the learned scholar stops with, as he could have consulted Malayali scholar, Marathi scholar, Oriya scholar, Bengali scholar, Gujarathi scholar, Rajasthani scholar, Hindi scholar, Kashmiri scholar and so on.

So here, the point is that Ramayana story has been so popular among every society of the ancient civilizations and accepted by the members of different societies, each member wanted to recognize and transform such Ramayana character to the identified members of society or vice versa for exhibiting similar or same characteristics. When one asks, “Ey, why are you sleeping like Kumbakarna?” , it does not imply that his brother is like Ravana and so on. It has been used figuratively to drive out the point as such characterization has been known to everybody. Thus, he cannot be considered to have created one more Ramayana!

The so-called freedom of thought expression and opinion: The existence of 300 or 3,000 or 30,000 Ramayanas has been the credit to the popularity of Ramayana as a human-literature, Universal literature long back and it does not discredit as the existence of more Bibles[13] or Quarans or Korans[14], as the very mention would be anathema. Perhaps, the persons, who talk about “300 Ramayanas” do not know the existence of more Bibles or Korans., but the faithful believers destroyed many or all according to their own estimate and accounting and finally have one “printed version”, declared as infallible and revealed through God as the “Word of God”, so none could change anything thereafter. But they do not explain why there were hundreds of Bibles and Korans and why they were destroyed. How they could have selected the existing version only as the exact tract as revealed to their respective prophets to be accepted as authentic and authorized. How such divine grace had descended on the chosen group to decide and do accordingly.

Indians have not leaned the art of editing, expurging and interpolation of verses of books, as done by the non-Indians. They have not learned the art of destruction of earlier, differing or opposing versions and to claim that this is the only “Authorized version” or “Revealed Book”.

The Arabic tradition of rendering Poetry and Koran: The Arabic tradition has been that the Arabic poets would only recite their poems, be listened and enjoyed and appreciated by others and they were never written down. Particularly, in the case of Koran, it was strongly believed that as it was revealed by Allah through Jibreal / Gabriel to the Prophet Mohammed (PBCH), it has to be learned by heart by listening to the recital by the experts. There had / have been groups exclusively for the purpose of recital of Koran. Only later, the writing down of Koran and its translation into other non-Arabic languages started. As Ibn Warraq has elaborately dealt with about it, it is not discussed here. In fact, Mohammed Mamaduke Picthall[15] in his foreword clearly records the following points:

1.. It may be reasonably claimed that no Holy Scriptures can be fairly presented by one who disbelieves its inspiration and its message.
2.. The Koran cannot be translated. That is the belief of old-fashioned sheikhs and the view of the present writer (H. M. Pitchall).
3.. …the Glorious Koran, that inimitable symphony, the very sounds of which move men to tears and ecstasy.

In India, the society has been liberal, democratic and egalitarian, so the members have liberty to pursue their literary pursuits. Thus, they make one God to many Gods; make male and female Gods with child God also; many times lover; employer and slave; chieftain, king and emperor and so on. It increases his thinking and creativity. The painter and sculptors too follow such pattern and depict Gods and Goddesses accordingly. This is the real freedom of thought, expression, and exhibition of artistic talent. That is why the negative characterization is opposed and condemned. Nowadays, it has become fashion for elite artists, eminent historians and social activists to come out and support such errant perverts, but it is not correct, as could be seen. For example, A cannot of sleeping with B’s wife, just because, he has the freedom of thinking. Having such freedom of thinking, he cannot express openly to B, because he has freedom of expression. As B too have such rights and starts exercise his rights of freedom of thought and expression the consequences are well known. Therefore, there are individual rights which should not violate the rights of others. If this fundamental is not known or knowingly, continuously violated, definitely the peaceful people may react one day. Therefore, it is better to live amicably instead of provoking others. In such situations and conditions, only the provoking forces are barbaric, medieval, lumpen and so on.

Any other world literature does not have such elasticity, flexibility, liberality, democracy, egalitarianism proves that they are controlled and suppressed. Therefore, there cannot be any freedom of thought, expression and opinion entertained in such societies. Even, there is no freedom to tell the fact that there were 300 / 3000 Bibles and Korans, but they were destroyed and now there is only one! Here, Salman Rusdie and H. F. Hussain can be contrasted in the context; Ibn Warraq and EVR; Karunanidhi and Taslima Nasreen; Bertrand Russell and Thomas Paine; and so on.

Ramayana characters could be human beings of any age: As mentioned, because of the flexibility of the characterization of Ramayana, it is applicable to any time and place. Ramayana and Mahabharata are played everywhere by the people with their available men and materials. Therefore, in such depiction, dramatization and adapted-rendering, there would variance in all aspects. Taking these literary critics cannot make big fuss out of it. Now Rama and Ravana may come with pants and shirts also. If it becomes, popular, it would be carried on enjoyed by a group. Can it we say, it is 301th Ramayana or 3001th? Yes, it is correct, “as long as there are many Ramas, there would be more Ramayanas”.

But no other literature could be subjected to such process, as in the non-Indian tradition, the very such thought might be unthinkable. We cannot have many non-Indian heroes or Gods. Can Paula Richman produce an edition of “Many Bibles”, “Many Qurans”, like that or any narratives and oral traditions of Jesus, Mary, Joseph, Mohammed, Fatima etc.(just for example, it is asked). Believers of the respective lands and countries know the existence of such narratives, renderings and oral traditions available here and there, but Paula cannot compile. Why even the New Testament apocrypha or Hadis renderings are not discussed, debated and papers presented.

Who can analyze the non-Indian characters (including heroes and heroines, deified heroes and heroines and Gods and Goddesses themselves), criticize or justify their acts of omission or commission, and bring all renderings along with Thomas Paine, Robert Ingersol, Salmon Rushdie, Taslima Nasreen etc. Even Tembavani[16] and Sirappuranam[ 17] cannot be rendered in English, as the orthodox might oppose some verses. In fact, they had already objected to “Kesadhipada varnanai” (= the Tamil traditional narrative of a woman character whoever may be from head to feet, part by part) and removed such verses. Therefore, without going into the details, the western scholars go on commit blunders under the guise of research and it is totally wrong. They should ponder over. As they have big-big University labels, our Dravidian friends immediately, take their renderings and they produce their own renderings to blaspheme Hindus. Here only, the problem comes.

SUN-TV and Ramayana: In SUN-TV group of companies, Karunanidhi and his family members have shares. So why SUN-TV all of sudden start broadcasting “Ramayana”, that too, the much hated, criticized and blasphemed one. Why not the “Ravana Kaviyam” of Kulandai? It is promoted, looked. Loved and considered as “divine” by the Dravidian protagonists including Karnanidhi. He has already accepted that he supports Ravana and he belongs to such clan! Of course, even Kalainjar TV cannot be prevented in broadcasting Ramayana or Mahabhrata, but what about the ideology? They cannot abuse Hindus and cater them with this tamasha. They cannot kill Hindu culture and do this nonsense. They cannot soil the sanctity of temples and try to do some gimmicks. Of course, we know they do not follow the dictum of “Padippathu Ramayanam, idippathu Pillaiyar koil”, but, they meddle with Ramayana and demolish the Temple of Ramayana. That is why now the target is Ramar-palam!

References

[1] Today when I started typing this, SUN-TV of the Black Parivar has started broadcasting “Ramayana”! Even Kalainjar TV broadcast Ramayana!

[2] Vedaprakash, Why Tamilnadu Historians tell lies?, http://www.indiainteracts. com

[3] DK-DMK-PMK-Viduthal ai Puligar, their affiliated parties, associations and ideological subsidiaries.

[4] Al Communists parties CPI-CPI(M), CPI (ML) their affiliated parties, associations and ideological subsidiaries.

[5] It is only summarized one, of course with abusive language used characteristically in the Tamil translation.

[6] In spite of the fact that the Aryan-Dravidian hypotheses and Aryan Invasion Theory (AIT) have been proved unhistorical and baseless, these ideologists continue to believe and carry on the propaganda and rouse passion in the same language as they used to speak some 40 to 60 years back.

[7] In the Journals of Royal Asiatic society, All India Oriental Conference and others, enough has been discussed and debated about Valmiki Ramayana and the Jain and Buddhist version of their Ramayanas.

[8] A. K. Ramanujam, “Three Hundred Ramayanas”, Many Ramayanas, edited by Paula Richman, 1991, University of California Press, USA, pp.22-49.

[9] A. K. Ramanujam, opt.cit, p.24.

[10] Ibid, however, he does not mention the name of the Kannada scholar who could count exactly 1000!

[11] This “According to….” makes one remember, “The Gospel according to St. Matthew”, “The Gospel according to St. Mark”, “The Gospel according to St. Luke”, “The Gospel according to St. John”, and so on!

[12] Ibid, here also, he does not mention the name of the Telugu scholar who could count more than 1000!

[13] H. G. G. Herklots, How the Bible Came to us?, Penguin Books, UK, 1959.

[14] Ibn Warraq, Why I am not a Muslim, Promethecus Books, New York, 1995, p.20, 73-76.

[15] Mohammed Mamaduke Picthall, The Meaning of the holy Quran, Crescent Publishing Company , New Delhi,

[16] A Tamil literary work produced on the lines of or rather imitating Kamba Ramayanam.

[17] A Tamil literary work produced on the lines of or rather imitating Kamba Ramayanam, but some Mohammedans claim that it is even superior to Kamba Ramayana, of course, they do not talk about the editing, expunction and removal verses and other modifications done.

Historians as witnesses and Sunni Wakf Board Experts!

October 16, 2010

Ramajanmabhumi-Babarimasjid, evidences and Court or

Hisorians as witnesses and Sunni Wakf Board Experts!

Vedaprakash

Ramajanmabhumi-Babarimasjid and eminent hisorians: The eminent historians would appear immediately, whenever “Rama” appears in the headlines of Indian media. They start interpreting historicity of “Ramayana” according to their own way without any regard for the other view or perspective[1]. Even in the case of Sethu-samuthram, they started writing in “the Hindu” and EPW grinding their mills as usual[2]. Of course, the left media does / did not want the opinion of the others[3]. They vociferously lecture and write that they would appeal against the judgment and so on, but disappear thereafter. They exploit every forum like IHC etc., only to project their viewpoint[4]. Romila Thapar roared, “We would appeal against this jugment”, when the so-called “Hindutva judgment” came[5], but nothing happened! And the faithful readers of “The Hindu”, Frontline, EPW and the devoted members of IHC etc., also do not bother as to why their eminent historians tell lies or play such dubious games? Why they believe the eminent historians, because of their eminence or for their duplicity? Have they ever thought about them as to why they behave like that? Now, again these left / eminent intellectuals / historians have been busy with issuing statements. Besides, historians and experts others too join!

130 experts sign – ASI report should be made public, says appeal to Chief Justice[6] (14-10-2010): Now 130 experts have come out with an open letter addressed to the Chief Justice of India! The news reports say like this, “The Allahabad High Court based a significant part of its judgment in the Ayodhya case on the evidence provided by the Archaeological Survey of India’s report on its excavations at the site, submitted to the court in 2003. They accuse that the report is still hidden from the public eye, and a virtual gag order placed on archaeologists who acted as observers during the excavation[7]. Now that the judgment has been pronounced, a group of 130 academics, activists and intellectuals have demanded that the ASI report be published. In an open letter[8] to the Chief Justice of India and the Chief Justice of the Allahabad High Court, they urged that the report “be made available for scrutiny in the public domain, especially to scholars, as it is now a part of the public judicial record.” The ASI report, which concluded that a temple had existed at the site, has been criticised by many archaeologists for ignoring evidence such as animal bones, which would not have been found in a temple for Ram, and the existence of glazed pottery and graves at all levels which indicated Muslim residence”[9].

Shereen Ratnagar and D. Mandal were slapped with contempt of court charges by the Allahabad High Court: “In May, archaeologists Shereen Ratnagar and D. Mandal were slapped with contempt of court charges by the Allahabad High Court for sharing their observations in a book, titled “Ayodhya: Archaeology After Excavation”, published by Tulika in 2007. The orders in that case have been reserved”. That means they know the implications of the law. That is why they have been keeping quite since 2003!

The open letter and signatories: “The open letter notes that, “the world at large is equally constrained to silence. Such a judicially ordained zone of uncertainty curbs freedom of expression and fair comment.” Indians have never seen them in other caes where such issues have been involved. Thus, they want to selective!

Signatories: “The letter was signed by well-known Indian academics such as Sumit Sarkar, Uma Chakravarti, K.N. Pannikkar, K. Satchidanandan, Ajay Dandekar and filmmakers such as Anand Patwardhan, as well as less well-known Indian citizens – a software engineer, a textile design consultant, a teacher[10]. Academics from abroad – including those from universities in London, Chicago, Stockholm and Copenhagen – have also signed the letter, as friends of India”. This type of letters have been issued since 1992 and many times, the so-called signatories say that they have simply agreed to include their names in such letters. In some cases, they did / do not know also about the inclusion of their names!

Romila Thapar and others: Statement issued through Sahamat (01-10-2010): Another report goes like this: “Questioning the verdict of the Allahabad High Court on the Ram Janmabhoomi-Babri Masjid title suits, a group of left-leaning intellectuals on Friday said the judgment was “yet another blow to the secular fabric of the country” and the “repute of our judiciary”.  The scholars, including Romila Thapar, K M Shrimali, K N Pannikar, Irfan Habib, Utsa Patnaik and C P Chandrasekhar, said in a statement through the platform of Safdar Hashmi Memorial Trust (SAHMAT) that the verdict had raised “serious concerns” because of the way history, reason and secular values had been treated in it. “The view that the Babri Masjid was built at the site of a Hindu temple, which has been maintained by two of the three judges, takes no account of all the evidence contrary to this fact turned up by the Archaeological Survey of India’s own excavations — the presence of animal bones throughout as well as the use of ‘surkhi’ and lime mortar (all characteristic of Muslim presence) rule out the possibility of a Hindu temple having been there beneath the mosque,” the statement noted.

The verdict on Ayodhya: a historian’s perspective[11] (01-10-2010): Under this caption, the view of romila thapar appeared in “The Hindu”. It goes like this, “It has annulled respect for history and seeks to replace it with religious faith.

“The verdict is a political judgment and reflects a decision which could as well have been taken by the state years ago. Its focus is on the possession of land and the building a new temple to replace the destroyed mosque. The problem was entangled in contemporary politics involving religious identities but also claimed to be based on historical evidence. This latter aspect has been invoked but subsequently set aside in the judgment.

“The court has declared that a particular spot is where a divine or semi-divine person was born and where a new temple is to be built to commemorate the birth. This is in response to an appeal by Hindu faith and belief[12]. Given the absence of evidence in support of the claim, such a verdict is not what one expects from a court of law. Hindus deeply revere Rama as a deity but can this support a legal decision on claims to a birth-place, possession of land and the deliberate destruction of a major historical monument to assist in acquiring the land?

“The verdict claims that there was a temple of the 12th Century AD at the site which was destroyed to build the mosque — hence the legitimacy of building a new temple.

“The excavations of the Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) and its readings have been fully accepted even though these have been strongly disputed by other archaeologists and historians. Since this is a matter of professional expertise on which there was a sharp difference of opinion the categorical acceptance of the one point of view, and that too in a simplistic manner, does little to build confidence in the verdict. One judge stated that he did not delve into the historical aspect since he was not a historian but went to say that history and archaeology were not absolutely essential to decide these suits! Yet what are at issue are the historicity of the claims and the historical structures of the past one millennium.

“A mosque built almost 500 years ago and which was part of our cultural heritage[13] was destroyed wilfully by a mob urged on by a political leadership. There is no mention in the summary of the verdict that this act of wanton destruction, and a crime against our heritage, should be condemned. The new temple will have its sanctum — the presumed birthplace of Rama — in the area of the debris of the mosque. Whereas the destruction of the supposed temple is condemned and becomes the justification for building a new temple, the destruction of the mosque is not, perhaps by placing it conveniently outside the purview of the case.

“Has created a precedent[14]: The verdict has created a precedent in the court of law that land can be claimed by declaring it to be the birthplace of a divine or semi-divine being worshipped by a group that defines itself as a community. There will now be many such janmasthans wherever appropriate property can be found or a required dispute manufactured. Since the deliberate destruction of historical monuments has not been condemned what is to stop people from continuing to destroy others? The legislation of 1993 against changing the status of places of worship has been, as we have seen in recent years, quite ineffective.

What happened in history, happened. It cannot be changed[15]. But we can learn to understand what happened in its fuller context and strive to look at it on the basis of reliable evidence. We cannot change the pas[16]t to justify the politics of the present. The verdict has annulled respect for history and seeks to replace history with religious faith. True reconciliation can only come when there is confidence that the law in this country bases itself not just on faith and belief, but on evidence”.

Earlier stand – Irfan Habib (01-10-2010): “With the three judges pronouncing differing opinions on the historical and archaeological aspects of the case in the Allahabad High Court’s judgement on the disputed land in Ayodhya, many leading historians have been left bemused. “It’s not a logical judgement with so many parts going 2-1. One does not accept the logicality of the judgement,” said Irfan Habib, a noted historian and a former Chairman of the Indian Council of Historical Research who earlier taught at the Aligarh Muslim University. He noted that the verdict seemed to legitimise the events of 1949[17], when an idol was placed inside the mosque, by constant references. On the other hand, by minimising any mentions of the demolition of the Babri Masjid in 1992, the court seemed to be disregarding it, he said. He also expressed surprise that two judges questioned the date of construction of the Babri Masjid, as well as the involvement of emperor Babar or his commander Mir Baqi, since there had been clear inscriptions to this effect before the demolition. “Things that are totally clear historically, the court has tried to muddy,” he said[18].

D. N. Jha: “The historical evidence has not been taken into account,” said D.N. Jha, history professor at the Delhi University. Noting the judgement’s mention of the “faith and belief of Hindus” in reference to the history of the disputed structure, Dr. Jha asked why the court had requested an excavation of the site.“If it is a case of ‘belief,’ then it becomes an issue of theology, not archaeology. Should the judiciary be deciding cases on the basis of theology is a question that needs to be asked,” he said.

Supriya Verma, one of the observers: Professional archaeologists also noted that the judges did not seem to rely heavily on the Archaeological Survey of India’s court-directed excavation of the site in 2003, at least in the summaries of their verdict available on Thursday evening. “Somewhere, there is doubt about the credibility of that report,” said Supriya Verma of the Jawaharlal Nehru University, who acted as an observer during the ASI excavation. She noted that neither Justice Sudhir Agarwal nor Justice Dharam Veer Sharma even referenced the ASI report to support his conclusion on the existence of a temple on the site before the mosque was built. “It is almost as though they themselves were not convinced by the evidence. They are clearly conceding that there was no archaeological evidence of a temple or of its demolition…It is a judgement of theology,” she said.

Jaya Menon, one of the observers: Another observer of the ASI excavation, Jaya Menon of the Aligarh Muslim University, noted that the ASI report itself did not provide any evidence of a demolition, and only asserted the existence of a temple in its conclusion. “So I don’t know on what basis they made their judgements,” she said. The ASI report had been criticised by many archaeologists for ignoring evidence such as animal bones, which would not have been found in a temple for Ram, and the existence of glazed pottery and graves which indicated Muslim residents.

The eminent historians as witnesses of Muslims in the Allahabad case: The eminent historians, historical experts  and leftist manufacturers never bother about their secular credentials.  It is not known as to why these coteries should always support for the Masjid or Muslim cause. Ironically, the following have been the witnesses of the case in question, which is criticised by them:

Sl.No Witness no Name of the witness
1 Witness No. 63 R.S. Sharma
2 Witness No. 64 Suraj Bhan
3 Witness No. 65 D.N. Jha[19]
4 Witness No. 66 Romila Thapar
5 Witness No. 70 Irfan Habib
6 Witness No. 72 B.N. Pandey
7 Witness No. 95 K.M. Shrimali
8 Witness No. 99 Satish Chandra
9 Witness No. 102 Gyanendra Pandey

Then, where is their loci standi in criticising the judgment and Court? As witnesses, definitely, they could have deposed before the judges presenting their “historical facts” as they only know how to interpret! The public perhaps, even today do not know that in secular India, these historians stood witnesses to the Muslims! Why none has appeared for Hindus or temple cause? When the cold-blooded terrorist and heinous killer like Kasab is given legal aid, why none appeared for the non-Muslim and non-mosque group? Where is secularism? Would they come out in the public what they told to the judges in the Court? However, the poor show showed in the court by them raises many questions.

HC judge exposed experts espousing Masjids cause: Waqf Board Line-Up Accused Of Having Ostrich-Like Attitude:  The role played by independent experts, historians and archaeologists who appeared on behalf of the Waqf Board to support its claim has come in for criticism by one Allahabad High Court judge in the Ayodhya verdict. While the special bench of three judges unanimously dismissed objections raised by the experts to the presence of a temple, it was Justice Sudhir Agarwal who put their claims to extended judicial scrutiny. Most of these experts deposed twice. Before the ASI excavations, they said there was no temple beneath the mosque and, after the site had been dug up,they claimed what was unearthed was a mosque or a stupa. During lengthy cross-examination spread over several pages and recorded by Justice Agarwal, the historians and experts were subjected to pointed queries about their expertise, background and basis for their opinions.
To the courts astonishment, some who had written signed articles and issued pamphlets, were withering under scrutiny and the judge said they were displayed an ostrich-like attitude to facts. He also pointed out how the independent witnesses were connected one had done a PhD under the other, another had contributed an article to a book penned by a witness.

The vociverous historians could not give evidences properly as witnesses with all their extertise[20]: Some instances underlined by the judge are[21]:

  • Suvira Jaiswal[22] deposed whatever knowledge I gained with respect to disputed site is based on newspaper reports or what others told (other experts). She said she prepared a report on the Babri dispute on basis of discussions with medieval history expert in my department.

  • Supriya Verma[23], another expert who challenged the ASI excavations, had not read the ground penetration radar survey report that led the court to order an excavation. She did her PhD under another expert Shireen F Ratnagar.

  • Verma and Jaya Menon[24] alleged that pillar bases at the excavated site had been planted but HC found they were not present at the time the actual excavation took place.

  • Archaeologist Shereen F Ratnagar has written the introduction to the book of another expert who deposed, Professor Mandal. She admitted she had no field experience.

Normally, courts do not make adverse comments on the deposition of a witness and suffice it to consider whether it is credible or not, but we find it difficult to resist ourselves in this particular case considering the sensitivity and nature of dispute and also the reckless and irresponsible kind of statements…[25] the judge noted. He said opinions had been offered without making a proper investigation, research or study in the subject. The judge said he was startled and puzzled by contradictory statements.When expert witness Suraj Bhan deposed on the Babri mosque, the weight of his evidence was contradicted by anotherexpert for Muslim parties, Shirin Musavi, who told the court that Bhan is an archaeologist and not an expert on medieval history[26]. Justice Agarwal noted that instead of helping in making a cordial atmosphere it tends to create more complications, conflict and controversy. He pointed out that experts carry weight with public opinion.

When the matter is subjudice, one has to obey law: It is a simple matter that whenever, any issue / case is pending with the Court, as the matter is subjudice, it should not be discussed or the decisions cannot be drawn in favour of anybody. However, these left historians etc., have been always speaking and writing supporting for Muslim cause or against Hindus, as is evident from their own recorded / printed statements / articles always published in the selected in few journals / ndewspapers. Unfortunately, they have even agreed to be witnesses for the Wakf Board in the Allahabad Court as their names are figuring. Ironivcally, they are called as Sunni Wakf Board experts![27]

When religions rely upon belief system, so also secularism historians too belive so ignoring objectivity: Like believers and dis-believers historians too believe and compel others to believe their perspective without any objectivity. As their objectivity differes, their perspective also differ, but try to argue with ideology, as could be understood by others. With belief system, no two ideologists could come together; with objectivity no two historians could accept the same historical event in the same view or pwerspective; here, the media has been projecting only one view. So what about the other view and why the media does not provide opportunity to accommodate their view? Should “audi alteram partem – hear the other side and decide” be applicable only to the Courts according to the principle of natural justice or the historians do not want to follow?

The same pattern as noted in the case of DK, DMK and other rapid atheists and radical experts is noted in the case of these eminent historians or Sunni Wakf Board experts: As it is pointed out in the case of DK[28]-DMK[29] radicals and rabid atheist groups that they do not come to Courts or face courts, though, they used to cry and roar that they are not afraid of Courts and so on. Here, also, suppressing the facts, these historians talk and write one thing in the dailies and cover up their mumbling and bungling in the court. The court recordings of the witnesses have been actually exposing their hollowness of expertise, deceptiveness of historical knowledge and their dubious role as witnesses. That they accuse even without seeing, even without reading or just discussing with others etc, prove their capacity of manoeuvring and manipulation of academics. How they get PhDs etc., only prove such academic degradation and professional pampering without any shame or remorse. It is open secret that the JNU, AMU, DU, IHC, ICHR and others at one side and BMAC, Sunni Wakf Board, AIMPLB at the other side have been playing communalism under the guise of secularism. Just by accusing others they cannot live, survive and continue their careers in this competitive world.

Why the eminent historians and Sunni Wakf Board experts did not respond to the remarks of the Judge? Definitely, the remarks of the Judge have been questioning the integrity of the eminent historians and Sunni Wakf Board experts, who deposed before the court as witnesses! They cannot simply brush aside such exposure, as it casts aspersion on their position. The English reading Indians and Indian students may doubt their veracity, reliability and uprightness, as they read their writings or listen to them. Therefore, they should go to court to clear the mess instead of shooting out letters to the Chief Justice just like politicians.

Indians and Indian youth should note as to whether these Sunni Board experts should teach history. Very often, it is said, claimed and propagated that India is / has been secular. Yes, how then the eminent historians professional archaeologists acted as Sunni Wakf Board experts and deposed as witnesses to the Muslims? Why these retired historians, senile professors and their working agents always make clamor about history, historicity and historiography in India, as if they are the sole selling agents of such stuff? Nowadays, the fact is that a few have been takers for history and most of the universities have dispensed with history subject. Definitely, the so-called historians have lost their importance and thus they tried to struggle for survival with the political and communal support. Now, the documents are available to all and the facts are known to everybody who access them through internet or otherwise. Common people may not know or understand the deceptive talkings and writings of the eminent historians or Sunni Wakf Board experts, but slowly they come to know. They easily understand that who want to settle the dispute and who want to continue the dispute for their stakes. Definitely, Muslims and Hindus want to settle the issue once for all, but these history gamblers and politicians want to continue. Therefore, the will of people prevail.

Vedaprakash

16-10-2010


 

[2] Romila Thapar, “Where fusion cannot work – faith and history” (the Hindu, dated September 28, 2007).

…………………., Historical Memory without History, in Economic and Political weekly, VOL 42 No. 39 September 29 – October 05, 2007, pp.3903-3905.

K. N. Panikkar, Myth, history and politics, Frontline, October 5, 2007, pp.21-24.

Suraj Bhan, “Government should have stood by ASI”, Ibid, pp.19-20.

[4] During the 2007-IHC session, Suvira Jaiswal was making such satatements. Then, in Delhi also they tried take up the matter. Now, in February 2011 at Malda, they may raise the issue. However, the Indians have to weait and see.

[5] In “the Hindu”, as usual, the news appeared with her photo and all, but after that everbody would have forgot about it! However, their warrior-like talk, veiled threatening and tactics of suppression of facts cannot be acquired by others.

[6] The Hindu, ASI report should be made public, says appeal to Chief Justice, Published: October 14, 2010 01:54 IST | Updated: October 14, 2010 02:03 IST; http://www.hindu.com/2010/10/14/stories/2010101464751800.htm

[7] How this has been a blatant lie has been exposed by the judge and that is why these guys have now tried to save their image by writing such letters. Of course, the media gives due publicity to such hypes and gimmicks.

[8] However, their mumbling, jumbling and bungling deposes before the Court have been kept as closed secret!

[9] Thus the eminent historians look for a non-vegetarian kitchen of Muslims there instrad of a temple. The same experts declared that the 16” inscription was planted by the Karsevaks in 1992.

[10] When Bharatiya Itihasa Sankalana Samiti works on the same lines, the same eminent historians make fun of having such diversified experts, but now they themselves have such signatories, just to project their strength.

[11] The Hindu, Published: October 2, 2010 00:41 IST | Updated: October 2, 2010.

[12] There is nothing new in Romila’s argument, as she repeats the same matter again and again. The unfortunate thing is that she like her friends always want others should accept their views!

[13] How they contradict in their views legally can be noted in such statements. When convenience comes, they forget law, when law is against them, they start talking generalization or raise the bogey of “Hindutva”!

[14] Law precedence is created in the Court. Yes, definitely, the judges are the persons to create and others have to accept. Of course, the appealable legal remedy is there.

[15] But whatever happened also cannot be forgotten. When the same historians want to whitewash the temple destruction of the Muslims and accept only the Muslim contribution, such type of exclusivist logic is not explained. Why the students should not know the facts? In law it is said audi alteram partem – hear the other side and decide. How then historians want to decide without knowing the other side?

[16] Why then the interpretation of the past is always different for different historians? Nowadays, historians do not want objectivity also. How then they woerry about accuracy, when they themselves are not worried about it?

[17] Acts and Rules are within the time frame work. All know that Places of Worship Act is there and it e3xempts only this place and not others. Why then they talk about pre-1947 and after 1947, when law its4elf  cannot do so?

[18]The Hindu, Historical evidence ignored, say historians, dated October 1, 2010, http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article805087.ece

[23] It is interesting to note that the ASI report talks about a shrine followed by a temple with different structural phases, it also talks of “animal bones recovered from various levels of different periods”. If any shrine and a temple existed how can anyone account for the animal bones, Supriya Verma asks? She also maintains that stones and decorated bricks could have been used in any building, not necessarily only in a temple. Also, the carved architectural members have come from the debris and not from the stratified context.

[24] She got appointment in the AMU after she started supporting the cause of mosque and appeared as Sunni Wakf Board expert!

[25] The historians who deposed as witnesses and as well as others should carefully read this and understand their postion. They cannot pretend as if nothing happened or pose as great authorities and roam here and there in historical forums and conferences. Now Indians have also understood their double-games, double-speak and double-standards.

[26] Nowadays, just like medical experts or specialized doctors, these historians ad archaeologists trading charges like this – so-and-so is an expert in that field and he alone can know the truth and others cannot know the truth. Such type of exclusive mind-set exposes their arrogance and weakness and not the real expertise.

[27]Asghar ali Engineer, Archaeological Excavations and Temple, September 1-15, 2003,  http://www.csss-isla.com/arch%20150.htm

[28] Vedaprakash, Old Judgments and  New thoughts in the present context: S. Veerabadran Chettiar vs E. V. Ramaswami Naicker  others., http://vedaprakash.indiainteracts.in/2008/08/09/old-judgments-and-new-thoughts-in-the-present-context-s-veerabadran-chettiar-vs-e-v-ramaswami-naicker-others/

Karunanidhi way of Meddling with Chronology and History – II

January 17, 2010

Karunanidhi way of Meddling with Chronology and History: Part – II

Vedaprakash

In Indian history, there have been instances, where the Mohammedans and Christians had meddled with Indian chronology and history.

In that notorious meddling tradition, the dravidian concoctor, meddler and forger – Karunanidhi has joined and spoliing everything.

I have already pointed out in my earlier posting as to how this senile man has stooped down to concoct the tradition, heritage and civilization:

http://vedaprakash.indiainteracts.com/2008/04/29/karunanidhi-way-of-meddling-with-chronology-and-history/

Karunanidhi way of Meddling with Chronology and History
Published on April 29th, 2008 In Blogging, Careers-Life, Parties, Philosophy, Writing-Poetry, Politics | Views 95

However, he has determined to play mischief, as evidenced from his nonsensical talk made as appearing in “Viduthalai”.

கிருஷ்ணனுக்கும் – நாரதிக்கும் பிறந்த 60 குழந்தைகள் –
தமிழ் ஆண்டுகள் என்றால் ஏற்றுக்கொள்ள முடியுமா?
“தமிழ்ப் புத்தாண்டை”க் கோலாகலமாகக் கொண்டாடுவோம்!

http://files.periyar.org.in/viduthalai/20090116/news02.html

http://files.periyar.org.in/viduthalai/20090116/thalai.html

முதல்வர் கலைஞரின் இன எழுச்சியுரை

சென்னை, ஜன. 16- தைமுதல் நாள் தமிழ்ப் புத்தாண்டுபற்றியும், இதுவரை இருந்துவந்த தமிழ்ப் புத்தாண்டுபற்றியும் முதல்வர் கலைஞர் அவர்கள் எடுத்துரைத்தும், தைமுதல் நாள் புத் தாண்டை சிறப்பாகக் கொண்டாட வேண்டும் என்று வலியுறுத்தியும் இன எழுச்சியுரையாற்றினார்.

கருணாநிதி கலைவாணர் அரங்கத்தில் நடைபெற்ற திருவள்ளுவர் திருநாள் மற்றும் தமிழக அரசின் விருதுகள் வழங்கும் விழாவில், விருது பெறும் ஒவ்வொருவருக்கும் விருதுத் தொகை ஒரு இலட்ச ரூபாய் பொற்கிழி வழங்கி, தங்கப் பதக்கம் அணிவித்துச் சிறப்பு செய்து, சிறந்த நூலாசிரியர்களுக்கும், பதிப்பகத்தார்க்கும் பரிசுகள் வழங்கி, அகவை முதிர்ந்த தமிழறிஞர்களுக்கு நிதியுதவி ஆணைகள் வழங்கி, விழாச் சிறப்புரையாற்றினார்கள். இவ்விழாவில், மாண்புமிகு நிதியமைச்சர் பேராசிரியர் க. அன்பழகன், மாண்புமிகு செய்தித்துறை அமைச்சர் பரிதி இளம்வழுதி மற்றும் முக்கியப் பிரமுகர்கள் கலந்துகொண்டனர்

தமிழ்ப் புத்தாண்டு தொடங்குகின்ற இந்த நாளில் – நேற்றையதினம் புத்தாண்டு – ஏழையெளியவர்களுக்கு எல்லாம் – எல்லோருக்கும் சமத்துவப் பொங்கல் சாப்பிட இந்த அரசின் சார்பாக அவர்களுக்கெல்லாம் தேவையான பொருட்களை வழங்கிய அரசு – இந்த அரசு – இந்தப் புத்தாண்டை இதற்கு முன்பு நாம் கொண்டாடினோம். வருடப் பிறப்பு என்ற பெயரால் கொண்டாடினோம். அந்த வருடப் பிறப்பு எப்படி புத்தாண்டாக மாற நேரிட்டது என்றால் – தந்தை பெரியார் போன்றவர்கள், பேரறிஞர் அண்ணா போன்றவர்கள், புரட்சிக் கவிஞர் பாரதி தாசன் போன்றவர்கள், மறைமலை அடிகளார் போன்றவர்கள், திரு.வி.க. போன்றவர்கள் அத்தனை பேரும் சேர்ந்து – நம்முடைய தமிழனுக்கு ஒரு ஆண்டு வேண்டும், அந்தத் தமிழ் ஆண்டு, புத்தாண்டு தை முதல் நாளாகத் தான் இருக்க முடியும், தை பிறந்தால் வழி பிறக்கும் என்று அந்தச் சொல் வந்ததற்குக் காரணமே, தை பிறந்தால் தான் தமிழனுக்கு, ஏழைக்கு, விவசா யிக்கு, உழவனுக்கு, பாட்டாளிக்கு வாழ்வு பிறக்கின்றது. ஆகவே அந்த நாளை நாம் புத்தாண்டு என்று வைப்போம் என்று வைத்தார்கள். அதற்கு முன்பு இருந்த புத்தாண்டு, வருடப்பிறப்பு – அது வேறு, இது வேறு. அய்யோ, அதை ஒழித்து விட்டீர்களே என்று யாராவது சொன்னால், நீங்கள் கேளுங்கள். நீ எந்த வருடம் பிறந்தாய் என்று – என்னையே கேளுங்கள் -அவர்களுடைய கணக்குப்படி-நான் ரக்தாட்சி வருடம் பிறந்தேன். அப்படியென் றால் இப்போது எனக்கு என்ன வயது? ரக்தாட்சி வருடம் பிறந்த வனுக்கு அட்சய வருடத்தில் என்ன வயது என்று கேட்டால், ரக்தாட்சி, குரோதன, அட்சய – ஒரு வருடம் – ஏனென்றால் அறுபது ஆண்டுகள் – பெயர்கள் சுற்றிக் கொண்டே வரும். பிரபவ, விபவ, சுக்ல, பிரஜோபத்தி, ஆங்கீரச, ஸ்ரீமுக, பவ, யுவ, தாது, ஈஸ்வர, வெகுதான்ய, பிரமாதி, விக்கிரம, விஷூ, சித்திரபானு, சுபானு என்று இப்படி அறுபது ஆண்டுகள் சுற்றிக் கொண்டே வரும். அப்படி சுற்றிக் கொண்டு வரும்போது இந்த அறுபதில், 1924ஆம் ஆண்டு பிறந்த நாள் – இந்த வருடத்தின் சுற்று முடியும் போது – யாராலும் சரியாக வயதைக் கணக்கிட்டுச் சொல்ல முடியாது. 1924இல் பிறந்தவன் என்று சொல்கிற போது, இப்போது என்னுடைய வயது 85 என்று சொல்ல முடியும். எப்படி வந்தது இந்த வருஷம்.? ஒரு நாள் கிருஷ்ணனைப் பார்த்து நகர் வலம் வந்த நாரதர் – கிருஷ்ணா எனக்கொரு ஆசை என்றார். என்ன ஆசை நாரதா என்றார். நான் கதை சொல்லவில்லை. இது திரைக்கதை வசனம் அல்லவே அல்ல. இது திவ்யமான புராணம். அந்தப் புராணத் திலே நாரதர் வீணையோடு வந்து கொண்டிருந்தார். அப்போது கிருஷ்ணனிடம் எனக்கொரு ஆசை, அதை நீ நிறைவேற்ற வேண்டுமென்றார். ஒரு அழகான பெண்ணோடு நான் ஒரு நாளா வது வாழ வேண்டும் என்றார் நாரதர். கிருஷ்ணனுக்கு கோபம் வந்து விட்டது. இவர் யார், நாம் யார்? நம்மைப் பார்த்து இப்படி கேட்கிறாரே என்று, சரி உனக்கு நான் இந்த வரம் தருகிறேன், நீ இந்த ஊரில் எல்லா வீடுகளுக்கும் போ, எந்த வீட்டிலேயாவது அழகான ஒரு பெண் உனக்காக இருந்தால், நீ அவளை ஏற்றுக் கொள்ளத் தடை இல்லை, அவள் உன்னோடு வருவாள், போ என்று அனுப்பி வைத்தார். நாரதர் போனார். ஒவ்வொரு வீட்டி லும் ஒரு புருஷனோடு பெண் இருந்தாளே தவிர, தனியாக ஒரு பெண்கூட இல்லை. திரும்பி வந்தார் நாரதர். ஏன் என்று கிருஷ்ணர் கேட்டார். எல்லா வீடுகளிலும் பெண், ஆணோடு தான் இருக்கிறாள், அதனால் எனக்கேற்ற பெண் எங்கும் கிடைக்கவில்லை, என்னை விரும்புகிற பெண்ணையே காணவில்லை என்றார். சரி என்ன செய்யச் சொல்றே? நானே பெண்ணாக ஆகி விடுகிறேன், நீ ஆணாக இருந்து என்னை சந்தோஷப்படுத்து என்று நாரதர் கிருஷ்ணனைக் கேட்கிறார்.

ஒரே நாளில் 60 பிள்ளைகள்

சரி உன் இஷ்டப்படியே ஆகட்டும் என்று நாரதரைப் பெண்ணாக்கி, நாரதர், நாரதியாகி – கிருஷ்ணன் நாரதர் இரண்டு பேரும் சந்தோஷமாக இருந்து – அதைத் தான் படம் பார்த்திருப்பீர்கள் – பல ஆண்டுகளுக்கு முன்பு திரைப்படம் வந்தது – பாட்டிகளுக்கெல்லாம் தெரியும் – கிருஷ்ணன் நாரதி என்று படமே வந்தது. நான் பொய் சொல்லவில்லை. அவர்கள் இருவருக்கும் சேர்ந்து 60 பிள்ளைகள் பிறந்தன. கடவுளுடைய காதல் அல்லவா? அவர்கள் இருவருக்கும் ஒரே நாளில் அறுபது பிள்ளைகள் பிறந்தன. அந்த அறுபது பிள்ளைகளுக்கும் வைத்த பெயர்கள் தான் பிரபவ, விபவ, சுக்ல என்று ஆரம்பித்து அட்சய வரையிலே உள்ள வருடங்களின் பெயர்கள். அந்த வருடங்கள் தான், அந்தக் கடவுளர்கள் தான், நமக்கு ஒவ்வொரு ஆண்டிற்கும் வைக்கப்படுகிற வருடங்கள், ஆண்டுகள் என்றிருந்தால் தமிழன் அதை ஏற்றுக் கொள்ள முடியுமா? அவன் தமிழனாக இருக்க முடியுமா? தமிழனாக இருப்பதற்கு அவனுக்கு எப்படி ஒரு கலை, கலாச்சாரம், நாகரிகம், பண்பாடு இவைகள் எல்லாம் வேண்டுமோ – பண்பாடு வேண்டும், அவனுக்கு வருடம் வேண்டாமா? அவனுக்கு ஒரு ஆண்டு வேண்டாமா? அவனுக்கு ஒரு திங்கள் வேண்டாமா? மாதம் வேண்டாமா? கிழமை வேண்டாமா? அதைத் தான் ஆய்ந்தாய்ந்து 500-க்கு மேற்பட்ட புலவர்கள் கூடி, 1921ஆம் ஆண்டு எடுத்த முடிவு தான், நேற்றையதினம் நாம் கொண்டாடிய நாள், தமிழர் புத்தாண்டு நாள் – இந்த ஆண்டு நாம் இதை ஓரளவு மகிழ்ச்சியோடுதான் கொண்டாடியிருக்கிறோம். ஏனென்றால் தமிழர்கள் வேறு ஒரு பக்கத்திலே சங்கடப்பட்டுக் கொண்டிருக்கிற நேரத்தில் நம்மால் அவ்வளவு தான் கொண்டாட முடிந்தது. அந்தத் தமிழர்களுக் காக நாம் இங்கே அந்த விழாவினை ஓரளவு தான் கொண்டாடி னோம்.

அடுத்த ஆண்டுமுதல்….

அடுத்த ஆண்டிலேயிருந்து அமெரிக்க சுதந்திர தினம் எப்படிக் கொண்டாடப்படுகிறதோ – இங்கிலாந்திலே எப்படி சுதந்திரம் தினம் கொண்டாடப்படுகிறதோ அதைப் போலவே தமிழர்களுடைய ஆண்டு தினம் – முதல்நாளைக் கொண்டாட வேண்டும். கடற்கரையிலே வாண வேடிக்கைகள் – ஒவ்வொரு மாவட்டத்தின் தலை நகரத்திலும் – குளக்கரையிலே, தெருக் களிலே, மைதானங்களிலே வான வேடிக்கைகள் நடைபெற வேண்டும். அப்படி கோலாகலமாக இந்த விழாவை நாம் கொண்டாட வேண்டும் என்று கேட்டுக்கொண்டு, விருது வழங்கப்பட்ட இந்த விழாவிலே இந்த விளக்கங்களைத் தருவதற்கு நேரம் கிடைத்த காரணத்தால் உங்களையெல்லாம் சந்திக்கின்ற வாய்ப்பு கிடைத்த காரணத்தால் – என் நோய் பறந்தது என்ற எண்ணத்தோடு மகிழ்ச்சியைத் தெரிவித்துக் கொள்கிறேன்.

One should have the knowledge of astronomy, mathematics and connected textual knowledge to understand any subject matter.

We were taught that the “earth was like that of the shape of an orange” to impress upon that its polar diameter is lesser than that of equitorial diameter. Thus, we do not still believe that the earth has neither the shape nor the size that of an orange.

We were taught about atoms as “indivisible” based on Dalton”s atomic theory. But, many years later Rutherford, Bohr and others disproved with their experiments that “atom” can be divided into sumatomic particles like proton, neutron, electron, neutrino etc. Thus, the word “atom” has become redundant and meaningless, however, as Western / Greek legacy, we still use.

However, here, the attempt of Karunanidhi has been shere idiotic, mischievous and spiteful, as he has been bent upon to malign Indian tradition, heritage and culture.

He should have some basics when he knows to mention the names of the so-called 60 years!

Jupiter conjoins Saturn in 19.859 years at an advance of about 123 degrees. After three conjunctions, 59.577 years, it recurs at a mean advance of 8.93° – the first order recurrence cycle of Jupiter-Saturn. With this 9-degree advance every 60 years, in 40 conjunctions the advance moves around the circle and in 794.37 years returns to within 0.93° of the starting point – the second order recurrence cycle. This 1° discrepancy would thus locate a third order recurrence cycle in 360 times 800 years, roughly speaking, a period too far in excess of recorded history to be useful as a frame of reference.

The cycle of Jupiter now in general use is a cycle of sixty years, the samvatsaras of which bear certain special names, Prabhava, Vibhava, Sukla, Pramoda, “c., again in accordance with certain rules. This cycle exists in three varieties. According to the original constitution of this cycle, the samvatsaras are determined as in the second or mean-sign variety of the 12-years cycle: each samvatsara commences when Jupiter enters a sign of the zodiac with reference to his mean motion and longitude; and it lasts for slightly more than 361.02 days. This variety is traced back in inscriptional records to A.D. 602, and is still used in Northern India.The names of 60-year Jupiter cycle are found in the South Indian inscriptions – Chalukaya.

Mere rhetoric cannot serve the purpose.

Senility may be a trait of, relating to, exhibiting, or characteristic of old age <senile weakness> ; especially : exhibiting a loss of cognitive abilities (as memory) associated with old age, but, here in his case, it cannot be accepted as he talks nonsense, only when anything Indian / Hindu has to be attacked, he has been very clear.

Romila Thapar, Duke University, Methodist Church or Romila Thapar, Secularism, Secular history: The Role of Historian and Social Change!

July 16, 2009
Romila Thapar, Duke University, Methodist Church or Romila Thapar, Secularism, Secular history: The Role of Historian and Social Change!
Published on October 23rd, 2007 In Uncategorized, Politics |  Views 410
Romila Thapar, Duke University, Methodist Church orRomila Thapar, Secularism, Secular history: The Role of Historian and Social Change! I am happy to know that, “The Historian in the World: A Conversation with John Hope Franklin and Romila Thapar” will take place at 3 p.m. in the Divinity School’s Goodson Chapel on Duke’s West Campus. It is free and open to the public. Srinivas Aravamudan, director of the John Hope Franklin Humanities Institute, will moderate the discussion”. http://www.dukenews .duke.edu/ 2007/10/conversa tion.htmlI am more anxious what the historians discuss there in the Divinity School’s Goodson Chapel on Duke’s West Campus on October 22, 2007!

“the DivinitySchool’s Goodson Chapel on Duke’s West Campus” made me curious to look into the details. The University claims that, “The Duke University is related the Methodist Church”.

For details see: “Duke University”s Relation to the Methodist Church”:  http://library.duke.edu/uarchives/history/duke-umchh.html

  •      Well, it is all right, bt how the reportedly Communist or Marxist, progressive, secuar Romila Thapar would be speaking there in the, “the Divinity School’s Goodson Chapel on Duke’s West Campus”?
  •      How “Two distinguished scholars will share their views of the role of the historian and social change”?
  •      Would they discuss within the Charter, bylaws, aims, and mission statement” or they go beyond?

The “Charter, bylaws, aims, and mission statement” contains a provision, as follows:

The aims of Duke University are to assert a faith in the eternal union of knowledge and religion set forth in the teachings and character of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; to advance learning in all lines of truth; to defend scholarship against all false notions and ideals; to develop a Christian love of freedom and truth; to promote a sincere spirit of tolerance; to discourage all partisan and sectarian strife; and to render the largest permanent service to the individual, the state, the nation, and the church. Unto these ends shall the affairs of this University always be administered”.http://library.duke.edu/uarchives/history/charterlink.html

How Ropmila Thapar hailing from “Secular India” is going to be accommodative, conducive and recptive to such Christians principles in the name of Jesus Christ? This makes me remember as to how the Christian Crusades, marriages and other functions are held at the “Periyar Tidal” (auditourium with big hall) at Chennai, India. The podium / stage there bear the Cross-believing Christians and the atheists, who speak against the God, scriptures and believers! Like that, would the “the Divinity School’s Goodson Chapel on Duke’s West Campus” bear the secular, progressive and sectarian Romila Thapar there in the name of Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

Just remember, what she wrote about Jesus Christ, when she was accusing Rama, the Hindu God as a myth:

This does not happen with the biographies of those who were known to be historical figures and who founded belief systems: the Buddha, Jesus Christ, Mohammad. Their biographies adhere largely to a single story-line and this helps to endorse the ‘official’ narrative of their life. Their existence is recorded in other sources as well that are not just narratives of their lives but have diverse associations…..”.

At that time, I had responded as follows:

Their biographies adhere largely to a single story-line and this helps to endorse the ‘official’ narrative of their life.Why they should largely adhere to a single line? How this helps “official” narrative? How “official” it could be of “their life”? Why can’t you write as a historian instead of believer here? That the “biographers” were compelled or forced to accept or adhere to a single line proves that many lines were left out. And still small number of biographers who did not adhere to a single line is also exposed. Then, what you are talking about? Majority view and minority view? Condemn the “lesser” and accept or approve the Larger”! Adhere to one-line and forget many lines! What sort of historian you are? That man Karu has become a senile man and talks differently. Do you also do the same think as a senile lady?How you endorse such one-liners? Is there any historical methodology to that effect? Which University teaches such approving of one-line biography by eminent historians like you?Do not fool Indians. Ernest Renan, J. M. Robertson and so many reputed authorities are there on the subject matter of Jesus Christ and Christianity. Any way, it is your cowardice gets exposed, as you never whispered anything, when there was much Christian opposition to screening of “Da Vinci Code”. However, when the so-called “Hindutva judgment” came out, you vociferously jumped and asserted that “We would go to Court”. Everything appeared in “the Hindu” itself with your face. Madam, what happened? But now you come siding with atheists, anti-Hindus, anti-nationals as a historian suppressing the recent past and forgetting your own past!

Their existence is recorded in other sources as well that are not just narratives of their lives but have diverse associations. So also Rama. Why then your argument goes differently.In fact, their associations differ. But, Ramayana core story, as H. D. Sankalia in his “Ramayana Myth or Reality”  that it had been there nearly for 3000 years.How “That their existences is recorded in other sources” help you to decide?

It may be noted that historians and scholars have pointed out that Christ story was copied from
Krishna! Rama was repeatedly mentioned in different literature not because of variance, but influence and impact created on the people well before 2500-3000 YBP. Was the Sangam poet a fool to record in his poem about his discussion with his army about the mode of crossing over the ocean to Lanka”. How that poet was imaging that that Lanka should have been the Lanka of Ramayana in his times i.e, 2500 – 3000 YBP?”

Definitely, the Americans and American Christian believers might be knowing about the background and the implications revoving around the discussion. So, we Indians are eagerly waiting to see as to how tshe is going to discuss within the conditions of the University and Christian belief system or she would have courage to vent our her genuine feeling as sjhe has been doing here in India against Hindus. As she has recently started supporting the atheist political party DK-DMK-PMK combine of the ruling combine (supported by the Communist-Marxist political parties from outside), we look forward the discussion to fulfil the following conditions:

The aims of Duke University are to assert a faith in the eternal union of knowledge and religion set forth in the teachings and character of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; V     to advance learning in all lines of truth; to defend scholarship against all false notions and ideals; to develop a Christian love of freedom and truth; V     to promote a sincere spirit of tolerance; to discourage all partisan and sectarian strife; and V     to render the largest permanent service to the individual, the state, the nation, and the church.

Unto these ends shall the affairs of this University always be administered

The activities of Duke foundation have been obviously Christian:

For details: click and see http://www.dukeendowment.org/ruralchurch

VEDAPRAKASH

22-10-2007.

Historians: Mythistory, Historical myths and Historiography in India

July 16, 2009
Historians: Mythistory, Historical myths and Historiography in India
Published on October 20th, 2007 In Uncategorized, Politics |  Views 1286
Historians: Mythistory, Historical myths and Historiography in IndiaThe Communist historians posing as “master of all arts”: K. N. Panikkar1, the rabid communist and Red Parivar fundamentalist has been out with his brigade and arsenal to attack the noble subject of history and historiography with professionally biased, ideologically corrupted and historically perverse duplicity. He follows Romila Thapar2 sincerely and faithfully without any historical sincerity, epistemological honesty and historiosophic faith, though, in his determination to write about politicization of history. Now, his new venomic dosage has poured in the form of “Myth, history and politics” with due accommodation in the propagandist communist mouth-piece of “Frontline”3.

Suraj Bhan4, the Babri-archaeologist says, “Government should have stood by ASI”. Ironically, he sided with the communal and divisive forces of BMAC at that time. More irony was that the BMAC was producing EVR books as evidence to the government. He now goes to assert that archaeology has nothing to do with religion. But it is archaeology, those archaeological evidences, which decides the fate of religion. He need not come out about the NASA pictures now, as archaeologists or scientists never opine, as do now, when the pictures were published in media and discussed widely. At that time itself, the scientific community could have openly asserted that it was only a ridge made of coral reef and so on.

Earlier, the eminent historian, Romila Thapar had the audacity of questioning the so-called “Hindutwa judgment” and declared, “We will file appeal in the Supreme Court”. But nothing happened. This had been a glaring example of historians meddling with religious sentiments, and judicial judgments.

“    So why these retired, senile, old-aged historians off and on, come out and roar and sleep like this?

“    Why they want to pretend to be “master of all arts or subjects”?

“    Are they really sincere in pursuing such path or just write something, get money and keep quite?

Indians are forced to study them carefully for their exhibited behaviour5 (shouting, fighting and beating during the business sessions of IHC, SIHC etc), eccentric statements and claims (that we would appeal to Supreme Court) and occasional explosive writings [as appearing in the Hindu, Frontline, EPW, Murasoli (mouth-piece of the militant anti-Hindu DMK) etc]. How the persons of various disciplines should be evidently ganged against one particular religious believers, religion and their belief system? Is it coincidence or orchestrated war against them? What is right or wrong with them?

Politicization of Ayodhya – the Myth and Reality: While the people of Ayodhya have started cursing BJP and Sangh Parivar for forsaking the issue, the Red gang at Faizabad tried to interpret differently6. But the local people who have been living there for thousands of years do not believe the communists. At one time, they have even driven away them and warned that they would not vote for them again (ironically, the people of Faizabad in which Ayodhya is situated elected Communist).

Had they known that these communist historians are propagating another myth that “Ayodhya” was in Afghanistan7, even local Muslims would have thrashed them out for “talibanization of Indian history”8. The people of Ayodhya have been angry with politicians, ideologists and government, as they have been disturbed, troubled and harassed by them always. Whenever, any problem is there, they land down to get sensational news and disappear.

But the continuing tradition, age-old worship, people participation in the festivals, fairs and celebrations have been curtailed by the government under the guise of security. So why the Red Parivar (Communists of all sorts), the Black Parivar (the atheist-politicians of all sorts) and the Green Parivar (not elsewhere specified) want to remember Rama?

The local Hindus and Muslims blame all, as they have lost their land, the traditional places of festivals and fairs, terribly disturbed by the police and security forces, as they could not carry out their routines, periodic festivals and fairs. Tourism, fairs and festivals only bring money for livelihood there. As they live on such fairs and festivals and now they are restricted and even banned, thousands of people of Ayodhya have been affected greatly. Their grievance has been two-fold –

  1. As BJP and Sangh Parivar forgotten Rama and Ayodhya, the people coming to Ayodhya has stopped and
  2. because of government restriction, terrorist attack etc., the strength of tourists coming there has also dwindled down.

They, painfully express that nowadays, people are afraid of Ayodhya, because of the politicization. Have historians noted this point? The mythologization of history of Ayodhya has only brought harm to the people and not any benefit. The fight of archaeologists9 at WAC-3 only exposed the Communal, fundamentalist, fanatic, ideologically oriented archaeologists and not any real archaeologists who work for the benefit or welfare of Indians.

Now, the Politicization of Rameswaram: The same thing has started happening at Rameswaram and the sacred spot Sethu-samuthram. For thousands of years, the Hindus have been faithfully going there coming from extreme north and north-west and even from foreign countries to have holy-dip at the Dhanuskoti. On every auspicious day, there would be lakhs and thousands of people gathering there to carry out their duties without any publicity.  It is not myth that every place, spot and even stones and earth there are named after Ramayanic characters, episodes and happenings, as no historian or mythologist has taught them to do so.

\    If there is no Rama and Ramayana, where is Rameswaram?

\    Can these archaeologists and historians could find pr suggest another name for this place?

\    How the engaged responsible scientists and others without consciousness, honesty and integrity, mention as “Adam-bridge” now in official documents and writings even in the science journals10?

\     Then, why can’t they change the name to Adam-samuthram Project instead of Setu-samuthram project?

\    With such mind-set, have they any morality or moral right to sit in the Committee?

But now, the politicians, engineers, workers and others have landed in gangs and started disturbing, troubling and harassing the locals. Not only the pilgrims even the locals have been annoyed by their behaviour and activities.

If Rama is not there, there is no Rameswaram. But the historians, politicians and the non-believing atheist evidently anti-Hindu have been out to attack the innocent Hindus. Still millions of Hindus do not know that their monument has already been subjected to demolition in the name of progress, project, and money-making political contracts where more than 2500 crores are involved.

So now, it has been the atheist DMK who wants to be in power blackmailing and extracting from the Congress, who are ironically supported by the very Communist crones of treachery. The political power brokers have ganged together under the guise of bastardized alliance burying their ideologies only with the aim of amassing crores through commissions, contracts and postings. They do not have anything for India, or anything connected with
India. Why then, they have ganged together to rule? So the intention has been very clear to loot the people under the name of pseudo-secularism, political fundamentalism and alliance gangsterism.

So their slaves and agents of historians, paid-writers and pert-journalists have no other business from their slumber, but suddenly wake up and start writing about Rama, Ramayana etc., in the accommodative papers and journals. Why the duplicity? And what these historians talk and write about?

Filing and withdrawal of Affidavits: An “affidavit” has been a sworn statement submitted to any legal or quasi-judicial; forum by the applicant or respondent in the involved case or dispute with usual appendage, “I do hereby solemnly affirm and say that the statements contained in the foregoing petition are true to my knowledge”. Generally, a lawyer or advocate would draft it taking facts from their client. After approval of the client, it would be vetted by the senior advocate and filed on the judicial forum. What is the role of historians or archaeologists here, that too, not connected with the case? If there has been any legal lacuna or deviation, even if one is not advocate or party, it can be pointed out for rectification.

Remember the affidavit and petition filed by one Chandamal Chopra11 in Calcutta High Court on June 18th, 1985 – popularly known as “Calcutta Quran petition”? Why these Communist historians were sleeping when it happened from their citadel? Even though, the petition and review petition filed by Chandamal Chopra was dismissed by the Judge Bimal Chandra Basak, the Court documents tell the history.

Take another classical case of Sri Ramakrishna Mission claiming minority status12 in the very same Calcutta High Court! What happened? Yes, the so-called Hindutwa Mission found by the communal Swami Vivekananda was declared as minority Institution by the Calcutta High Court! What these historians were doing at that time? Where Romila was roaming, Panikkar was poking or prowling upon and Suraj was snoozing? The affidavits did not bother them? They did not know the history or fooling the people of India?

Why “the only nationalist newspaper”,  “The Hindu” and the communist “Frontline” did not come out with articles questioning the affidavits, history, faith, myth, fusion etc., involved in the above cases? Why archaeologists like Suran Bhan did not come out to rescue archaeology or history or at least to suggest the government, as he doing now?

Why historians are sleeping and awakening suddenly? If these historians are committed to the historical cause with historicity in their minds, they should be consistent with every similar issue. They should be conscious, vigil, and awakened all the times and come out with their articles in The Hindu, EPW or frontline. But, they are active only when “Rama” is involved.

V     Why can’t their historical consciousness and historical thinking question the historicity of Jehovah, Allah, Jesus, Christ, Mary, Mohammed,
Fatima and their connected events and happenings? 13

V     Location of their places of birth, so-journ and death?

V     Archaeology of such places? 14

As India is a secular state and the festivals of them are imposed on majority Hindus, all Indians have every right to know why Christmas, Easter, Miladi-nabi, Bakrid, and other festivals are celebrated15. The Hindus and true-secularists are bewildered and perplexed as to why the Muslims and Christians are greeted whenever their festivals are celebrated? Or their gods days of birth and death are celebrated, whereas that of others, particularly, the Hindus are neglected?

M  Why myth, history, faith, fusion etc., work differently here?

M  Why this variance in the approach of historians?

M  Is it historically allowed or hysterically followed?

M  Why methodology differs?

M  Why scientific temper in history fails?

M  Why secularism too stops working?

M  Why multivocal existence, folklore tradition, narrations of Bibles, Quarans etc., are not talked about?

M  If myth represent reality but represent it symbolically and metaphorically yet masking reality, why such myths are not told to secular Indians?

Thus, it is evident that these archaeologists and historians have been totally dishonest, corrupt, and perverse by being partial, biased and prejudiced. Definitely, these qualities are not for good historians. Hiding their cunningness and manipulative shrewdness, they now declare that they need not have any objectivity in history. As in the west, here there have not been any wagers for mythologization of history or historification of myth, but still, unofficial war is waged6 by the Communal Communist forces calling others as communal ands so on!

Of course, they might have done good work some 20-30 years back, but now, their psyche and mind-set are revealed and definitely, Indians cannot expect any historically faithful writings from them.

6      And they would continue to write like this with the same trend of faith, fusion, etc., creating “mythistory” 17 in Indian fooling millions of students of schools and colleges.

6      Can any responsible parent of
India allow these horrible and horror historians to write text-books for our children to read and become fundamentalists, fanatics and terrorists of new brand under the guise of pseudo-secularism, secular-fundamentalism and mythistory?

Myth, history, mythistory: Historically “myth” is not false, untruth or non-existent, in historical context at a particular historical time and historical place. Thus, historical myths are not opposed to historical facts, as from such myths only, the facts are culled out, grouped, analyzed and results are drawn for interpretation. Without myth or at least believing in myth, no archaeologist could proceed in his field study. He cannot locate any mound to start his dig.

History is not what is or has been or will be written but it is really what has or had happened in the past. In such understanding the past, historians cannot compel, dictate and force people with their own yardstick or scale

6      If historian says that your God is only 1000 years old or 2000 years old, that is his understanding of past, as the living tradition proves beyond doubt that certain people have been knowing that God for at least more than 4000 years. So historian fails in this simple case.

6      Historian says that one particular civilization has been illiterate and thus pre-historical in spite of their technology exhibited through material evidences excelling the present. Here also he fails miserably without understanding the facts.

6      He is creating a myth that only people with writing, that too that writing preserved and shown to them would be accepted as historical.

6      The limitation of understanding the past, misunderstanding or not-understanding of facts through material evidence, non-acceptance of available material evidence in historical perspectives etc., are only weaknesses of historians and not fault of such evidences. Here also historians create their myth.

6      If reconstruction of history is not possible with available constructive evidences, then, they cannot question the re-writing historians, adamantly, as again, they are creating a myth – the might of fascism that they can only write history and others cannot.

The historiography or rather historiographies of the pre-Christian or post-Christian, the pre-Mohammedan or post-Mohammedan, pre-Islamic or post-Islamic, pre-colonial or post-colonial interpretations, bias and prejudice at global level has been accepted one. The Indian history and historiography has been the adversely affected by all such impositions, censorship and professional bias-system operated and has been operating even today at different levels. Common Indians are not able to understand as to why these historians of all the above groups are ganged together and act against them? It is not the question of “Right” or “Left” but “Right” or “Wrong”. Indians cannot accept if “Right” is given by the “Right” or “Left”, or “wrong” is forced on them by the same categories. If both have problem in choosing which is right or wrong, Indians are not responsible for that, as they have books written and preserved in spite of the Muslim and Christian onslaught of destruction and carrying away the manuscripts and palm-leaf books ad other valuable historical evidences.

Unfortunately, Indian historical scholarship started reflecting some set of political or ideological groups degenerating into propaganda serving their political masters. The Congress has evidently nurtured the Communist or Marxist brand of historians since Nehru and they have been enjoying the postings in many historical and historian forums.

Politicians, historians, scientists and Adam-bridge: Now, we see not only historians, but also scientists have been ganged up with them. All have been under the control of politicians. They would have already sworn affidavit with their political masters. How then, they would faithfully come out with their professional expertise? When about one billion believers call it as “Ram-sethu”, these chosen numbers have audacity to mention as “Adam-bridge”, like Babri-Masid! Why such selective or specific bias on the part of scientists and experts?

It is obvious, the Communist historians may also get a share in the form of VC, members, directors in the thousands of Government controls academies, institutes etc., where they get income regularly with other regular facilities.

Appeal to Historians, scientists and politicians: If you want to earn money, go on build bridges in the city and towns. You can build two or more at required points or at non-required points, No problem. Lay four-track, six-track roads for MNCs, you get crores of rupees as commission. You can get funds from ADB, World Bank, American Bank, Communist Bank, Islamic Bank (perhaps without interest) etc., without bringing Rama. Shellout all agricultural lands to MNCs, no problem. Develop SEZs, kill people, immediately, you can bring revolution! Forget Rama and Sethu-samuthram project.

You can share with your scientists and historians by engaging them as “consultants”. Of course, corporate corruption always accommodates “consultants”, just like The Hindu, Frontline etc., accommodating communal communist historians. Do not taking Ayodhya to Afghanistan and Lanka to Madhyapreadesh or elsewhere, by actual talibanization of history.

The Indian politicians – please do play with the communist cronies and encouraging them to goon and spin mythistory. Do not try to wage war against innocent people of
India.

N     By calling Rama a myth, a drunkard and so on, what you are going to achieve? We know you people always drink.

N     Can you get the status of Rama?

N     Or can you become a Rama?

N     By saying that my leader name is Ramaswamy, can any fool would believe that you are so friendly to Rama?

N     Do not you think that you are creating myth like roaming Romila, puny Pankkar and sullying Suraj?

Leave Rama to Ramabaktas, they are capable of taking care of him. Do not worry about Ayodhya or Lanka. Be happy with Ravana.

Notes and References

1.     K. N. Panikkar, a former professor of history, at Jawaharlal Nehru University and a former-vice-chancellor of Sree Sankarayacharya University of Sanskrit (sic), is currently the chairman of the Kerala Council of Historical Research. In IHC sessions, he used to give lectures in the evenings officially and unofficially to the Communist and Muslim groups separately.

2.     Romila Thapar, “Where fusion cannot work – faith and history” (the Hindu, dated September 28, 2007).

…………………., Historical Memory without History, in Economic and Political weekly, VOL 42 No. 39 September 29 – October 05, 2007, pp.3903-3905

3.     K. N. Panikkar, Myth, history and politics, Frontline, October 5, 2007, pp.21-24.

4.     Suraj Bhan, “Government should have stood by ASI”, Ibid, pp.19-20.

5.     It is very common during the sessions IHC. During business session of 51st session held atCalcutta in 1990, the members were about to clash with each other, but three delegates from Tamilnadu virtually-physically forced them apart. During the dinner hosted at the lawns of Victoria Memorial Building, the delegates all historians, professors etc., fall on the food without any discipline. The same three
Madras delegates came to rescue asking them to come in line to take their food.

K. Chitra Rao, Indian History Congress, a letter appearing in the Hindu dated December 10, 1991. It gives the gist of what happened at the Calcutta session. Of course, it has been edited version.During Warangal session, Bipan Chandra got angry and started shouting creating ugly scene during the session.

6.     A documentary film shown on Ayodhya few months back from 10 to 10.30 am.

7.     A delegate from Aligarh Muslim University presented a paper locating Ayodhya at Afghanistan during the IHC session held at Bhopal.

8.     The expression “Talibanization of history” has been used by the Christian-Communist-Muslim-atheist historian groups against the so-called Hindutwa historians, but in action, they are indulging in such “talibanization”. The accusers themselves enhaged in the action of the “accused”!

9.     World Archaeology Conference (WAC-3) held at New Delhi has been a blot on Indian archeology and history, as the so-called archaeologists openly fought with each other exposing their ugly minds.

10.  P. Seralathan, Disposal of dredge spoil from Sethusamudhram Ship Channel Project, Currenmt Science, Vol.90, No.2, January 25, 32006, pp.146-147.

11.  Sita Ram Goel, The Calcutta Quran Petition, Voice of India, New Delhi, 1986.

12.  Sri Ramakrishna Mission, founded by Sri Swamy Vivekananda, filed a petition in Calcutta High Court claiming “minority” status as a “non-Hindu. However, the Supreme Court held it as “Hindu”!

13.  A cursory browsing in the net gives you thousands of sites with facts.

14.  See “Bible and Archeology” books in the net. The general policy of the government has been, if evidences supporting Bible are found, funds would be given, otherwise no.

15.  Earlier for Miladunabi, etc., holiday was not there. But after V. P. Singh, communalization has crept into even in the declaration of “Government hoilidays”. Thus, as expected, the birth day of Mohammed is a holiday always, whereas that of Rama or
Krishna is not a holyday!

16.  Jerry H. Bentley, Myths, Wagers, and Some Moral Implications of World History, in Jounal of World History, Vol.16, No.1. Available in the following site: http://www.historycooperative.org/cgi-bin/cite.cgi?=jwh/16.1/bentley.html

17.  The word “mythistory” was used by K. V. Ramakrishna Rao in his writings during 1983. However, it is claimed that McNeill used it connoting, “a form of knowledge about the past that relies on the techniques of professional historical scholarship but also draws inspiration from perspectives that offer idealized visions of a community and endow its historical accounts with meaning”.

William H. McNeill, “Mythistory, or Truth, Myth, History, and Historians,” American Historical Review 91 (1986): 1–10;

…………………….., Mythistory and Other Essays (Chicago, 1986), pp. 3–22.

………………………….., “Mythistory,” p. 7. For an elaboration that perhaps represents what McNeill had in mind for his ecumenical world history, see J. R. McNeill and William H. McNeill, The Human Web: A Bird”s-Eye View of World History (New York, 2003).

History, faith and Indian historians A rejoinder to Romila Thapar.

July 16, 2009
History, faith and Indian historians A rejoinder to Romila Thapar.
Published on September 29th, 2007 In Uncategorized |  Views 1116
The following is my response to the Editor, The Hindu. However, “The Hindu” has not been publishing views opposing to its ideology. Generally, it is said that N. Ram does not encourage anything that is against Marxism etc. Whatever, may be the fact, the copy is posted here for debate and discussion:A rejoinder to Romila Thapar Romila Thapar, an eminent historian of India has written her opinion in “The Hindu” under the caption, “Where fusion cannot work – faith and history” (The Hindu, September 28, 2007). For the article, see: http://www.thehindu.com/2007/0928/stories/2007092855231200.htm and with reference to this, I respond as follows:

Historians have never been honest in dealing with the historical issues involving faith and history, and there only faith and history have been brought into conflict. It is not fusing faith and history or vice versa. Historians know very well that it is their belief that history can be only based on what is written or has been written. It is their faith that they do not believe that if lived man of one million or 1 billon did not live if he has not left any historical record. But how scientists would say about it?

Historians believe about past events that they should have happened like this; at the same time other set of historians interpret that the same events could have happened in different way. Historians have accepted that they do not require any objectivity in their historical studies or methodology. So again, it their strong faith that they believe that objectivity is not required. But any other professional would accept it? Therefore historical faith and history cannot be independent. Without faith of the past or faith ion archaeological methods, historians cannot work independently. When historians have decided to differ, there would be difference only. Historians believed that Aryans invaded India destroyed Dravidians and so on. At that time itself, the believers and even Sanskrit scholars clarified that it was gross misinterpretation of Vedas. But none cared. Now, the historians have retracted, but the books remain containing such unhistorical writings. So how can their premises, their methods of enquiry, and their formulations be dissimilar?

You say, “When historians speak of the historicity of person, place, or event, they require evidence — singular or plural — that proves the existence of any of these and this evidence is based on data relating to space and time. The two important spaces in the Valmiki Ramayana are Ayodhya and Lanka, on the location of which scholarly opinion differs”. Yes, what are those “scholarly opinions”? An opinion is nothing but belief or faith only as their views is estimated depending upon their attitudes and outlook.

What you say about the foot print of Mohammed kept in Jama Masjid or the hair kept in a Kashmir mosque? Have you ever recommended for chemical analysis or DNA test? Have historians ever tried their scientific methodology? Where has gone their scientific temper? You claim, “It is said that the Ram Setu is cultural heritage and therefore cannot be destroyed even if it is a natural geological formation and not man-made. Has the idea become the heritage? To search for a non-existent man-made structure takes away from the imaginative leap of a fantasy and denies the fascinating layering of folk-lore”. When H. D. Sankalia [1972:46] asserted that there were no evidences for Asoka, Chandragupta Maurya etc., as no horizontal excavations had been done, historians did not worry and search for Asoka or Chandragupta. When Vincent Smith [1990:231-267] wrote that Asoka killed his brothers etc., you also repeated the song in your book [1963:20-54]. Accepting Kalhana as historian, you ignored the Asoka, as he recorded. So why can’t deny this Asoka and accept the Asoka of Kalhana? It is only “the majority idea / opinion / faith” that only this Asoka could be “Mauryan Asoka” in spite of lacking historical evidences, created and established one Asoka! So even existed person was consigned to imaginary leap of fantasy and made fable!

Even after the so-called “authorized / critical edition” [Vol I-1960, II-1962, III-1963, IV-1965, V-1966, VI-1971], the mention of different Ramayanas is irrelevant, immaterial and incompetent.

As a historian, it is surprising that you have lied to the whole world like this:  “This does not happen with the biographies of those who were known to be historical figures and who founded belief systems: the Buddha, Jesus Christ, Mohammad. Their biographies adhere largely to a single story-line and this helps to endorse the ‘official’ narrative of their life. Their existence is recorded in other sources as well that are not just narratives of their lives but have diverse associations. The historicity of the Buddha, for example, is established, among other things, by the fact that a couple of centuries after he died, the emperor Ashoka on a visit to Lumbini had a pillar erected to commemorate the Buddha’s place of birth. This is recorded in an inscription on the pillar”.

6      This does not happen with the biographies of those who were known to be historical figures and who founded belief systems: the Buddha, Jesus Christ, Mohammad.

It is well known that there are no biographies of Buddha, Jesus Christ and Mohammed as you asserted. This is blatant lie. Give me references of such biographies. What was written after such existed or non-existed personalities after them perhaps even after 300 years cannot be a biography. About different Buddhas, I am surprised that you say nothing is there. You do not remember how a Buddha had to come to fight with Adi Sankara? Moreover, it is well known about the different versions of Jesus, Christs etc., even before and after the so-called Jesus Christ combine. About Mohammed, I am also afraid of giving details just like you. Any way, just I tell there are books – M. Cook [1983:65], P. Crone [1987:75-76], Ibn Warraq [1995:66-85].

6      Their biographies adhere largely to a single story-line and this helps to endorse the ‘official’ narrative of their life.

Why they should largely adhere to a single line? How this helps “official” narrative? How “official” it could be of “their life”? Why can’t you write as a historian instead of believer here?

That the “biographers” were compelled or forced to accept or adhere to a single line proves that many lines were left out. And still small number of biographers who did not adhere to a single line is also exposed. Then, what you are talking about? Majority view and minority view? Condemn the “lesser” and accept or approve the Larger”! Adhere to one-line and forget many lines! What sort of historian you are? That man Karunanidhi has become a senile man and talks differently. Do you also do the same think as a senile lady?

How you endorse such one-liners? Is there any historical methodology to that effect? Which University teaches such approving of one-line biography by eminent historians like you?

Do not fool Indians. Ernest Renan, J. M. Robertson and so many reputed authorities are there on the subject matter of Jesus Christ and Christianity. Any way, it is your cowardice gets exposed, as you never whispered anything, when there was much Christian opposition to screening of “Da Vinci Code”. However, when the so-called “Hindutva judgment” came out, you vociferously jumped and asserted that “We would go to Court”. Everything appeared in “the Hindu” itself with your face. Madam, what happened? But now you come siding with atheists, anti-Hindus, anti-nationals as a historian suppressing the recent past and forgetting your own past!

6      Their existence is recorded in other sources as well that are not just narratives of their lives but have diverse associations.

So also Rama.

Why then your argument goes differently.

In fact, their associations differ. But, Ramayana core story, as H. D. Sankalia in his “Ramayana Myth or Reality” that it had been there nearly for 3000 years [1972:62].

How “That their existences is recorded in other sources” help you to decide?

It may be noted that historians and scholars have pointed out that Christ story was copied from
Krishna! Rama was repeatedly mentioned in different literature not because of variance, but influence and impact created on the people well before 2500-3000 YBP. Was the Sangam poet a fool to record in his poem about his discussion with his army about the mode of crossing over the ocean to Lanka”. How that poet was imaging that that Lanka should have been the Lanka of Ramayana in his times i.e, 2500 – 3000 YBP?

6      The historicity of the Buddha, for example, is established, among other things, by the fact that a couple of centuries after he died, the emperor Ashoka on a visit to Lumbini had a pillar erected to commemorate the Buddha’s place of birth. This is recorded in an inscription on the pillar

Recently, there has been lot of information coming out as to how the British historians including the ASI officials, specifically Alois Anton Furher had fabricated the Stone Casket with Asokan inscriptions and planted there. For his forgey, he was dismissed from the service. The sudden disappearance of Buhler also intriguing in the context. For more details see: http://www.lumkap.org.uk . note now also the ASI officials are in a soup!

6      “From the point of view of archaeology and history, the Archaeological Survey of
India was correct in stating that there is to date no evidence to conclusively prove the historicity of Rama. The annulling of this statement was also a political act. Reliably proven evidence is of the utmost significance to history but not so to faith”.

The present ASI officials are not like A. A. Fuherer to fabricate or forge Asokan inscriptions or like John Marshall to suppress the ASI report of Banrejee. They could have verified the greatest Indian archaeologist view in their affidavit. But, evidently, being the stooges of politicians, as politicians they acted ad they would get the sack, unless they are innocent or have guts to expose the politicians, who ordered them to do so. Leave alone the ASI people. The ASGCS / other standing councils who drafted the affidavit, vetted the affidavits etc.., also are responsible. Therefore, if all acted as a gang to malign and blaspheme Rama, it is not history but mystery. And do not you think that such culprits should be punished?

6      Blasphemy does not lie in doubting historicity.

Yes, Romila you doubt the historicity of others also as listed – Buddha, Jesus Christ, Mohammed – Do not be contended with one-line official version. You are a historian. You should go by primary sources – historical documents. Nothing more, nothing less!

To what extent you can doubt the historicity of them along with Rama or otherwise, we are going to see. Or children will wait and see!

Of course the question of blasphemy, who will decide? The Courts? Let us see!

6      The historian is not required to pronounce on the legitimacy of faith. But the historian can try and explain the historical context to why, in a particular space and time, a particular faith acquires support. And we need to remind ourselves that our heritage has been constantly enriched not just by those of faith but also by those who contend with faith.

Yes, you know very well if you start analyzing with the legitimacy of faith of – Buddha, Jesus Christ, Mohammed.

So you decide which faith has to be supported in a particular space in time?

Accordingly, it is evident that you do not support the faith of Rama.

Yes, Rama baktas have been living with content even after what you historians have done in the case of Ramajanmabhumi issue.

Of course, they may not be knowing what your people have been doing in the Indian History Congress presenting papers taking Ayodhya to Afganisthan etc. Note that even in
Calicut, during last IHC, you have to live on Rama just like Karyu. The lady who got selected as GS said some thing on Rama! Poor Rama-baktas kept quite.

6      If there is a strong faith — in the religious sense — among millions of people, then it does not require to be protected through massive demonstrations and the killing of innocent persons, through political mobilisation. Nor do archaeology and history have to be brought in to keep that faith intact. Faith finds its own place and function, as do archaeology and history. And the place and function of each is separate.

Yeah, oh woman, you do not know how many Ramabaktas were burned and killed. You want Rama-baktas to forget everything. But try to interpret mischievously, what happened to the three in Bangalore. Note, it is because of Karu, that happened. Fighting with Karnataka, he earned enormous enmity with Kannadigas. And this man used to come there and say as he used to go to Gopalapuram and Oliver Road

. So not vulgarize the issue with your perversity. Do not suppress the facts.

The honesty of archeologists and historians, only Indians have to certify.

6      To say that the partial removal of an underwater formation in the Palk Straits is going to hurt the faith of millions is not giving faith its due. Is faith so fragile that it requires the support of an underwater geological formation believed to have been constructed by a deity?

You can blast Bamian Buddhas, you can destroy IVC. Like Aurangazeb you can go on demolish temples. Like Dr. F.J A. Flynn, you can smuggle artifacts and coins. Your historians and archaeologists aid and abet. But he would be caught red-handed in
Delhi airport. So demolish Rama-sethu! Yes, nothing will happen or happens.

6      Making faith into a political issue in order to win elections is surely offensive to faith?

Karu is doing that. Cong is coding that. None else links it with politics.

6      What is at issue is not whether Rama existed or not, or whether the underwater formation or a part of it was originally a bridge constructed at his behest. What is at issue is a different and crucial set of questions that require neither faith nor archaeology but require intelligent expertise: questions that are being willfully (sic) diverted by bringing in faith. Will the removal of a part of the natural formation eventually cause immense ecological damage and leave the coasts of south India and Sri Lanka open to catastrophes, to potential tsunamis in the future? Or can it be so planned that such a potentiality is avoided?

Scientists have discussed enough. I do not think you have ay competency here.

6      What would be the economic benefits of such a scheme in enhancing communication and exchange? Would the benefits reach out to local communities and if so, how? Equally important, one would like to know precisely what role will be played by the multinational corporations and their associates in
India. Who will finance and control the various segments of such an immense project? It is only when such details are made transparent that we will also get some clues to the subterranean activities that are doubtless already simmering. These are the questions that should be asked of this project and that at this point in time should be occupying public space.

Oh now, it is clear. You write like what Karu talked and talking. Do you have any alliance with Karu? The “Mount Road Maha Vishnu” has marriage alliance with Karu. You have connection with Ram. So also Karu, Kanimozhi and Ramajayam with “The Hindu”. So what is the alliance. At whose behest, you are writing and talking the language of Karunanidhi?

Any way thank you for exposing yourself.

Thank you for revealing that Karunanidhi, Congress, you and others are doing this only for election.

VEDAPRAKASH

(29-09-2007)

57, Poonamalle High Road,

Maduravoyal, Chennai – 602 102.

letters@thehindu.co.in, vedamvedaprakash@yahoo.com

To

The Editor,

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