Posts Tagged ‘India’

How Tamilnadu Radicals recruit, export and receive back ISIS terror for home-grown terror (2)

October 9, 2016

Islamic radicalization, Jihadi fundamentalism and ISIS terrorism cannot be encouraged by any apologia, justification and secularization of terror [How Tamilnadu Radicals recruit, export and receive back ISIS terror for home-grown terror (2)!

consulate-general-of-india-istanbul

Subahani Haja Moideen returned to India with the help of Indian consulate at Istanbul[1]: It is evident that the Consulate has been seized of this matter, though nothing is mentioned about the terror activities in the official website. About visa, fake websites etc., the following details have been mentioned. Obviously, they are run by the ISIS agents. “All visa applicants intending to travel to India are alerted that fake visa websites such as –

  1. e-touristvisaindia.com,
  2. indianvisaonline.org.in,
  3. e-visaindia.com, etc.

are operating with the intention of cheating Indian visa seekers by giving erroneous information and misguiding applicants resulting in wastage of time and in many cases financial loss. In order to mislead applicants, some of these websites have created images and home page templates mimicking the official Government of India website. All visa seekers should note that the correct website for filling online visa / e-visa applications is https://indianvisaonline.gov.in. Visa applicants are also advised not to deal with other websites that do not belong to the Government of India.Visa applicants in the consular jurisdiction of Consulate General of India, Istanbul may seek information on visa procedure either by visiting the official website of the Consulate General of India, Istanbul: http://www.cgiistanbul.org or by sending an email to cpv@cgiistanbul.org[2]. Subahani Haja Moideen returned only through the help of the consulate. But, the returning has been genuine or fake or as a part of terrir activities to be continued in India after training etc., have to be analyzed carefully. Therefore, how the IS-terrorist could return easuly to India is intriguing.

kadayanallur-isis-sivakasi-link

T.N. terror suspect was shopping for explosives in Sivakasi: NIA[3]: “The Hindu” gives such caption, as if it is meant for amusment. Subahani Haja Moideen arrived in Mumbai after a gap of six months in September last year 2015 on an emergency certificate and returned to his ancestral place where he was staying with his wife and managed to get a job at a jewellery shop at Kadayanallur. That he could be accommodated immedyately in spite of his ISIS-terror background proves the well-supported logistics working in Tamilnadu and elsewhere. Whether the Consulate informed Government of India that such type of person is returning, wjether the local police station is aware of the fact or is he monitored by anybody etc., are totally unknown. The Hindu also simply reported that, “However, once back and settled, he again got in touch with ISIS handlers over Internet and was planning to collect explosives and precursor chemicals from Sivakasi at their instance.” He had travelled to Chennai, Coimbatore and other places to meet other local contacts in the conspiracy, collect money and procure explosives for terrorist acts as guided and motivated by ISIS handlers,” the NIA said[4]. How then, he has been given money immediately and who gave? This also proves the terror-money track existing in these states to help the terrorists going out and coming inside India.

kadayanallur-org-says-kerala-is-terrorist-arrested-03-10-2016

Tirunelveli drama with Subahani Haja Moideen (07-10-2016): Suspected Islamic State recruit H. Subahani of Kadayanallur, who was arrested by the National Investigation Agency (NIA) officers from Kadayanallur last Monday (03-10-2016), was brought to the town in western Tirunelveli again on Friday (07-10-2016) for conducting a search at his house and the jewellery shop in which he was working[5]. The NIA team led by Superintendent of Police Shaukath Ali that brought Subahani to Kadayanallur in the early hours of Friday kept him at the Courtallam police station and then brought him to Kadayanallur around 10 a.m. After checking the rented house on Khaja Mohideen Mosque Street where he was living, the NIA team also searched for evidence in the nearby jewellery showroom where the suspected IS recruit was working. The team questioned the owner and other workers of the showroom in the presence of revenue officials[6]. “The NIA officers took a mobile phone, four SIM cards and a hard disk from the house of Subahani,” a close relative of the detenue said. When asked about the purpose of the check, Mr. Shaukath Ali declined to answer. As the search and questioning came to an end, the NIA team took Subahani to the Kadayanallur police station for interrogation and left for Kochi in the evening.

kadayanallur-subahani-haja-moideen-bomb-making

Four persons known to Subahani Haja Moideen arrested and let off (07-10-2016): Four persons with suspected links to Islamic State (IS) have been picked up by NIA and are being questioned to probe their alleged association with another suspect arrested from Kannur in Kerala[7]. They were picked up by NIA on Friday night (07-10-2016) after their names were found in the contact list of Abu Basheer, one of the six arrested from Kannur recently, police said. Basheer, hailing from Tamil Nadu, was among the six held for being part of an ISIS inspired module who allegedly conspired to carry out terrorist acts. NIA has so far questioned 11 persons from the city, who were in the Facebook and telephone contact list of Basheer and seized laptops, mobile phones and some electronic gadgets from them. All of them were later let off. The four are residents of G M Nagar area in Ukkadam, where Basheer also stayed some time back and offered “lucrative jobs” abroad to many youths, police said[8].

gimmick-way-of-opposing-terroism-19-09-2016

The apologia of Muslims instead of condemning Jihadi terrorism: The recent arrest of Subahani Haja Moideen from Kadayanallur for suspected links with the Islamic State (IS) has raised concerns in the Muslim community about radicalisation of some Muslim youth[9]. Speaking about how such actions of a few could be used by Hindu right-wing forces to tarnish the image of an entire community, Kader Mohideen, state president, Indian Union Muslim League, said the party has opposed violent ideology wherever necessary. “The IUML has always campaigned against extremism and terrorism, weaning the Muslim youth away from such thinking. Still, some Muslim youth are swayed by their propaganda. The youth must not fall prey to it,” he said. The problem arose mostly due to the fact that many South Indian Muslim youth got most of their religious education in the Middle East. “In South India, most of us follow Islam which is closer to Sufism. The problem today is that the Muslim youth start learning radical ideologies in an extremely religious environment,” he said. Documentary filmmaker Kombai S. Anwar, who made Yaadhum tracing the roots of Tamil Muslims, said the community was paying the price for allowing its leaders to prey on the insecurities of the Muslim youth. He said the latest incident was a wake up call for Salafist and Wahabi outfits that preached a narrow interpretation of the holy text[10]. Condemning the IS as ‘unislamic’, Prof M.H. Jawahirullah, president, Manithaneya Makkal Katchi, said he was sure a majority of Tamil Muslim youth were not lured by the its propaganda. ”There is no political leader or a religious scholar in Tamil Nadu, who has supported the IS,” he said.

is-jihadi-from-tirunelveli-dinamani-cutting

Islamic or Unislamic, terror or non-terror arguments would not help Muslims or humanity: This type of response only proves the secularization of terrorism that is not correct in any context. As for as the Muslim youth are concerned, it is happening again and again. The ISIS recruitment has been well organized and the Muslims themselves helping directly and indirectly in every aspect. It is not the question of which “ism” of Islam is bad or good, terror or not terror etc., as all such “isms” are in one way or the other, ultimately, teaches “jihad” and it is the teaching of ISIS, Taliban, Jaish and other terror groups working in Kashmir also. As the following facts are known, they should be tackled immediately:

kadayanallur-isis-sivakasi-link-subahani-haja-moideen

  1. Educated Muslim youth, in spite of modernization, has been drifted towards ISIS terrorism (and other local categories also). Radicalization starts from home. Mosques, schools and colleges.

  1. Under the guise of getting a job aboard, they are recruited by ISIS and started working for them.

  1. The cellphone, social media, internet facilities are extensively used for such activities.

  1. Passport, Visa, money-exchange and other activities are also done, monitored and taken care of by themselves.

  1. They work knowingly or unknowingly (only for a short period), as they get good “salaries”, families are “taken care of” and other attractive benefits.

  1. In the war front, as they get everything, they are ready to become “shahid”!

  1. The retuned, escaped and other categories are to be suspected, as they could come here and work as spies, handlers etc.

  1. That they are immediately accommodated proves that their activities are known or they have been advised to do so with obligation.

  1. That they easily come and go etc., proves the direct and indirect help of the local, state and other authorities.

  1. International agencies, movements and organizations help directly and indirectly, for their logistics.

© Vedaprakash

09-10-2016

subahani-haja-moideen-also-known-as-abu-meer-brough-to-kadayanallur-documents-seized-08-10-2016

[1] http://www.cgiistanbul.org/

[2] http://www.cgiistanbul.org/Important_Notice

[3] The Hindu, T.N. terror suspect was shopping for explosives in Sivakasi: NIA,
New Delhi, October 7, 2016, Updated: October 7, 2016 13:17 IST

[4] http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/tn-terror-suspect-was-shopping-for-explosives-in-sivakasi-nia/article9194541.ece

[5] The Hindu, NIA team searches for evidence against Subahani at Kadayanallur, Tirunelveli, October 8, 2016, Updated: October 8, 2016 07:31 IST

[6] http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/tamil-nadu/nia-team-searches-for-evidence-against-subahani-at-kadayanallur/article9199882.ece

[7] The Hindu, IS links: Four picked up for questioning in Coimbatore,
Coimbatore, October 8, 2016, Updated: October 8, 2016 14:38 IST.

[8] http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/tamil-nadu/is-links-four-picked-up-for-questioning-in-coimbatore/article9201843.ece

[9] The Hindu, A wake-up call for radical outfits, Chennai, October 7, 2016, Updated: October 7, 2016 17:25 IST

[10] http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/tamil-nadu/arrest-of-subahani-haja-moideen-a-wakeup-call-for-radical-outfits/article9194542.ece

 

Advertisements

Now Tamilnadu Radicals recruit, export and receive back ISIS terror for home-grown terror (1)!

October 9, 2016

Now Tamilnadu Radicals recruit, export and receive back ISIS terror for home-grown terror (1)!

subahani-haja-moideen-also-known-as-abu-meer-a-resident-of-tirunelveli-working-for-is-arrrested-on-05-10-2016

IS-inspired terror module busted, six held in Kerala[1]: The National Investigation Agency (NIA) on Sunday 02-10-2016 arrested six members of a fresh terror module, allegedly inspired by the Islamic State (IS), a senior NIA official said. Five suspects were arrested when they assembled on a hilltop at Kanakamala in Kannur district of Kerala to plan their next move, said the NIA official. The other accused was arrested from Kuttiyadi in Kozhikode district. The six terror suspects are in the age group of 24-30 years and one of them is from Tamil Nadu. This again proves that Kerala has been breeding ground for terrorism with support from the locals and as well as relatives. It is intriguing as to how the parents have been keeping quite, obviously, knowing that their sons and daughters were doing something wrong, criminal and against the law of this land. The Central government directed the NIA to investigate the said conspiracy and a case under the antiterror Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act was registered. The accused have been identified as[2]

  1. Manseed alias Omar Al Hindi (30),
  2. Abu Basheer (29) from Coimbatore,
  3. Swalih Mohammed T. (26),
  4. Safwan P (30),
  5. Jasim N.K. (25) and
  6. Ramshad (24).

That youngsters with BEs, B.Techs, IT degrees and all have been engaged in terror modules only prove that they have been involving themselves willingly.

mosques-dargahs-and-madrassas-should-teach-against-terrorism-to-create-awareness-among-the-muslim-younthWhy radicalization has been so easy in Islam: The ring leader, Manseed alias Omar al Hindi (30), from Qatar four days back was the trigger for the arrests though the group was on the radar for four months now[3]. The accused, who were radicalised online, had formed a group called ”Ansar-ul-Khilafah Kerala” (soldiers of the Caliphate as propagated by IS) on Telegram — a web-based application platform, a senior Home Ministry official told The Hindu[4]. That is, a Muslim youth in the social media is attracted or attracting others to radical Islam proves his pre-determined mentality. In facebook, twitter, whatsup etc., it can easily be noted that 98% Muslims have been behaving only in this manner. They force non-Muslims with their perverted, dogmatic and fundamentalist Islamic ideas turning to jihadi type and ultimately to terrorism. All this type of activities are not possible without the moral, logistic and financial supports from parents, friends and the vested groups who have been working against the interests of this country.

tamilnadu-jihad-hi-tech-jihad-with-isisYoungsters with BEs, B.Techs, IT degrees and all have been engaged in terror modules: One of the accused, Jasim N.K. (24) — an engineer and the only one with an active Facebook account — was following Islamic preacher Zakir Naik and posted several messages against killings in Syria by the Assad regime and also about children and women killed in Palestine. His social media account also said that he was a keen follower of football and cricket and he last posted a message on May 3. The National Investigation Agency (NIA), which made the arrests on Sunday, said the accused were inspired by the IS and had assembled on a hilltop at Kannur in Kerala to plan blasts and attacks against key politicians in Kerala and Tamil Nadu when they were apprehended. However, no explosives were found on them, said the official. “We had been tracking the group for few months and then Manseed reached Kerala from Qatar four days back. We decided to keep them under watch but then they assembled at a hilltop in Kannur, we suspected that they might carry out some attack immediately, so they were apprehended,” a senior NIA official said. Manseed, a resident of Kannur, is married and was working in Qatar for the past few years. Another accused, Abu Basheer (29) alias Rasheed is a mechanic. The third accused, Swalih Mohammed T. (26), works at Club Mahindra in Chennai, and the fourth, Safwan P. (30), works as a designer for a newspaper. The other two suspects, Jasim N.K. (25) and Ramshad (24), are cousins. Ramshad worked as an accountant. “We are going through their social media accounts and have confiscated their phones and other electronic devices. They were radicalised online gradually and were brought together by Manseed,” said the official. The NIA was investigating whether Manseed was getting directions from someone else to carry out attacks here.

is-jihadi-from-tirunelveli-indian-expressTamilnadu youth arrested on 02-10-2016 Sunday in connection with terrorism: Following the detention of six persons from Kerala by the National Investigation Agency (NIA) allegedly linked to the Islamic State organisation on Sunday 02-10-2016, the investigative agency on Monday 03-10-2016 detained another person Subahani Haja Moideen, belonging to Kerala in Tirunelveli in Tamil Nadu[5]. The detention comes following the interrogation of the six who were arrested earlier[6]. The NIA had earlier on Sunday said,”Information was received that some youths from Kerala and Tamil Nadu along with their accomplices have entered into a criminal conspiracy to commit terror acts by collecting explosives and other offensive material to target important persons and places in various parts of south India.” This again proves the links among the radical groups working in Kerala, Tamilnadu and Karnataka, particularly in Southern side with hilly and forest areas.

subahani-haja-moideen-arrrested-on-05-10-2016-no-remorse-or-guiltSubahani Haja Moideen also known as Abu Meer, a resident of Tirunelveli working for IS – arrrested on 05-10-2016: The NIA has arrested a suspected ISIS operative, who had conspired to carry out terror activities in the country and was planning to collect chemical explosives from cracker manufacturers in Tamil Nadu[7]. Earlier, it was reported in detail as to how Batkal brothers and others were collecting chemicals, Potassium Nitrate, Ammonium Nitrate, etc., and manufacturing bombs, planting them and exploding killing hundreds and injuring thousands of innocent people. Therefore, the Tamilnadu IS handlers have also started such strategy is revealed through his activities. The accused identified as Subahani Haja Moideen, also known as Abu Meer, a resident of Tirunelveli in Tamil Nadu, was arrested by the NIA on Wednesday 05-10-2016 in connection with a case related to activities of the banned ISIS in India[8]. He worked with the IS between April and September, 2015, and is being described by the agencies as the closest any In dian recruit has come to seeing the action in West Asia[9].

gone-for-hajj-returned-as-isis-terroristGone for Hajj in March 2015 to returned as IS terrorist in October 2016: The accused was radicalised and recruited in ISIS through social media platforms. He had left India for Istanbul from Chennai last year March 2015 on the pretext of performing ‘Umrah’, the NIA said in a statement on Thursday 06-10-2016. It is not known as to whether he got any financial grant from the government in this regard. After reaching Istanbul, he crossed over along with other people who hailed from Pakistan and Afghanistan to Iraqi territory under control of ISIS. Thus, Istanbul has been basis for the terror recruitment, assembly and distribution as planned by the ISIS. This proves the local logistic support to ISIS from Istanbul. From there, he was taken to Mosul where he underwent detailed ‘religious training’ followed by combat training, which included a course in automated weapons before being deputed to fight war for almost two weeks. During the war, he told interrogators that he was paid $100 per month as an allowance by ISIS besides accommodation and food. However, he told interrogators that he could not withstand the violence and war misery in Mosul and decided to leave especially after he saw two of his friends getting charred. He was jailed for 40 days by ISIS and tortured. Again he was produced before a Islamic judge who sent him to Syria. Considering the seriousness of his knee injury, an IS “court” let him leave. The circumstances of his departure are likely to be closely probed, though[10]. He claimed that he was allowed to cross over to Turkey from where he contacted his family with the help of the Indian consulate at Istanbul.

© Vedaprakash

09-10-2016

subahani-kadayanallur-arrested-and-questioned-08-10-2016

[1] The Hindu, Is-inspired terror module busted, six held in Kerala,  New Delhi, October 3, 2016, Updated: October 3, 2016 02:41 IST.

[2] http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/isinspired-terror-module-busted-six-held-in-kerala/article9176644.ece?

[3] The Hindu, IS-inspired group was on radar for 4 months, New Delhi, October 4, 2016: Updated October 4, 2016, 12.25.IST.

[4] http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/isinspired-group-was-on-radar-for-4-months/article9181053.ece

[5] Indian Express, Tamil Nadu: One more person linked to ISIS arrested by NIA in Kerala, By: Express Web Desk | New Delhi | Updated: October 4, 2016 5:56 pm

[6] http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/kerala-is-links-arrests-one-more-detained-in-tamil-nadu-3062754/

[7] News18, Suspected ISIS Operative Arrested in Tamil Nadu, Was Planning Attacks, Press Trust Of India, First published: October 6, 2016, 2:46 PM IST.

[8] http://www.news18.com/news/india/suspected-isis-operative-arrested-in-tamil-nadu-was-planning-attacks-1299204.html

[9] Times of India, Back from fighting for ISIS, Tamil Nadu man sings, Neeraj Chauhan & Bharti Jain| TNN | Updated: Oct 7, 2016, 08.36 AM IST.

[10] http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/Back-from-fighting-for-ISIS-Tamil-Nadu-man-sings/articleshow/54728221.cms

Romila Thapar, Duke University, Methodist Church or Romila Thapar, Secularism, Secular history: The Role of Historian and Social Change!

July 16, 2009
Romila Thapar, Duke University, Methodist Church or Romila Thapar, Secularism, Secular history: The Role of Historian and Social Change!
Published on October 23rd, 2007 In Uncategorized, Politics |  Views 410
Romila Thapar, Duke University, Methodist Church orRomila Thapar, Secularism, Secular history: The Role of Historian and Social Change! I am happy to know that, “The Historian in the World: A Conversation with John Hope Franklin and Romila Thapar” will take place at 3 p.m. in the Divinity School’s Goodson Chapel on Duke’s West Campus. It is free and open to the public. Srinivas Aravamudan, director of the John Hope Franklin Humanities Institute, will moderate the discussion”. http://www.dukenews .duke.edu/ 2007/10/conversa tion.htmlI am more anxious what the historians discuss there in the Divinity School’s Goodson Chapel on Duke’s West Campus on October 22, 2007!

“the DivinitySchool’s Goodson Chapel on Duke’s West Campus” made me curious to look into the details. The University claims that, “The Duke University is related the Methodist Church”.

For details see: “Duke University”s Relation to the Methodist Church”:  http://library.duke.edu/uarchives/history/duke-umchh.html

  •      Well, it is all right, bt how the reportedly Communist or Marxist, progressive, secuar Romila Thapar would be speaking there in the, “the Divinity School’s Goodson Chapel on Duke’s West Campus”?
  •      How “Two distinguished scholars will share their views of the role of the historian and social change”?
  •      Would they discuss within the Charter, bylaws, aims, and mission statement” or they go beyond?

The “Charter, bylaws, aims, and mission statement” contains a provision, as follows:

The aims of Duke University are to assert a faith in the eternal union of knowledge and religion set forth in the teachings and character of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; to advance learning in all lines of truth; to defend scholarship against all false notions and ideals; to develop a Christian love of freedom and truth; to promote a sincere spirit of tolerance; to discourage all partisan and sectarian strife; and to render the largest permanent service to the individual, the state, the nation, and the church. Unto these ends shall the affairs of this University always be administered”.http://library.duke.edu/uarchives/history/charterlink.html

How Ropmila Thapar hailing from “Secular India” is going to be accommodative, conducive and recptive to such Christians principles in the name of Jesus Christ? This makes me remember as to how the Christian Crusades, marriages and other functions are held at the “Periyar Tidal” (auditourium with big hall) at Chennai, India. The podium / stage there bear the Cross-believing Christians and the atheists, who speak against the God, scriptures and believers! Like that, would the “the Divinity School’s Goodson Chapel on Duke’s West Campus” bear the secular, progressive and sectarian Romila Thapar there in the name of Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

Just remember, what she wrote about Jesus Christ, when she was accusing Rama, the Hindu God as a myth:

This does not happen with the biographies of those who were known to be historical figures and who founded belief systems: the Buddha, Jesus Christ, Mohammad. Their biographies adhere largely to a single story-line and this helps to endorse the ‘official’ narrative of their life. Their existence is recorded in other sources as well that are not just narratives of their lives but have diverse associations…..”.

At that time, I had responded as follows:

Their biographies adhere largely to a single story-line and this helps to endorse the ‘official’ narrative of their life.Why they should largely adhere to a single line? How this helps “official” narrative? How “official” it could be of “their life”? Why can’t you write as a historian instead of believer here? That the “biographers” were compelled or forced to accept or adhere to a single line proves that many lines were left out. And still small number of biographers who did not adhere to a single line is also exposed. Then, what you are talking about? Majority view and minority view? Condemn the “lesser” and accept or approve the Larger”! Adhere to one-line and forget many lines! What sort of historian you are? That man Karu has become a senile man and talks differently. Do you also do the same think as a senile lady?How you endorse such one-liners? Is there any historical methodology to that effect? Which University teaches such approving of one-line biography by eminent historians like you?Do not fool Indians. Ernest Renan, J. M. Robertson and so many reputed authorities are there on the subject matter of Jesus Christ and Christianity. Any way, it is your cowardice gets exposed, as you never whispered anything, when there was much Christian opposition to screening of “Da Vinci Code”. However, when the so-called “Hindutva judgment” came out, you vociferously jumped and asserted that “We would go to Court”. Everything appeared in “the Hindu” itself with your face. Madam, what happened? But now you come siding with atheists, anti-Hindus, anti-nationals as a historian suppressing the recent past and forgetting your own past!

Their existence is recorded in other sources as well that are not just narratives of their lives but have diverse associations. So also Rama. Why then your argument goes differently.In fact, their associations differ. But, Ramayana core story, as H. D. Sankalia in his “Ramayana Myth or Reality”  that it had been there nearly for 3000 years.How “That their existences is recorded in other sources” help you to decide?

It may be noted that historians and scholars have pointed out that Christ story was copied from
Krishna! Rama was repeatedly mentioned in different literature not because of variance, but influence and impact created on the people well before 2500-3000 YBP. Was the Sangam poet a fool to record in his poem about his discussion with his army about the mode of crossing over the ocean to Lanka”. How that poet was imaging that that Lanka should have been the Lanka of Ramayana in his times i.e, 2500 – 3000 YBP?”

Definitely, the Americans and American Christian believers might be knowing about the background and the implications revoving around the discussion. So, we Indians are eagerly waiting to see as to how tshe is going to discuss within the conditions of the University and Christian belief system or she would have courage to vent our her genuine feeling as sjhe has been doing here in India against Hindus. As she has recently started supporting the atheist political party DK-DMK-PMK combine of the ruling combine (supported by the Communist-Marxist political parties from outside), we look forward the discussion to fulfil the following conditions:

The aims of Duke University are to assert a faith in the eternal union of knowledge and religion set forth in the teachings and character of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; V     to advance learning in all lines of truth; to defend scholarship against all false notions and ideals; to develop a Christian love of freedom and truth; V     to promote a sincere spirit of tolerance; to discourage all partisan and sectarian strife; and V     to render the largest permanent service to the individual, the state, the nation, and the church.

Unto these ends shall the affairs of this University always be administered

The activities of Duke foundation have been obviously Christian:

For details: click and see http://www.dukeendowment.org/ruralchurch

VEDAPRAKASH

22-10-2007.

History, faith and Indian historians A rejoinder to Romila Thapar.

July 16, 2009
History, faith and Indian historians A rejoinder to Romila Thapar.
Published on September 29th, 2007 In Uncategorized |  Views 1116
The following is my response to the Editor, The Hindu. However, “The Hindu” has not been publishing views opposing to its ideology. Generally, it is said that N. Ram does not encourage anything that is against Marxism etc. Whatever, may be the fact, the copy is posted here for debate and discussion:A rejoinder to Romila Thapar Romila Thapar, an eminent historian of India has written her opinion in “The Hindu” under the caption, “Where fusion cannot work – faith and history” (The Hindu, September 28, 2007). For the article, see: http://www.thehindu.com/2007/0928/stories/2007092855231200.htm and with reference to this, I respond as follows:

Historians have never been honest in dealing with the historical issues involving faith and history, and there only faith and history have been brought into conflict. It is not fusing faith and history or vice versa. Historians know very well that it is their belief that history can be only based on what is written or has been written. It is their faith that they do not believe that if lived man of one million or 1 billon did not live if he has not left any historical record. But how scientists would say about it?

Historians believe about past events that they should have happened like this; at the same time other set of historians interpret that the same events could have happened in different way. Historians have accepted that they do not require any objectivity in their historical studies or methodology. So again, it their strong faith that they believe that objectivity is not required. But any other professional would accept it? Therefore historical faith and history cannot be independent. Without faith of the past or faith ion archaeological methods, historians cannot work independently. When historians have decided to differ, there would be difference only. Historians believed that Aryans invaded India destroyed Dravidians and so on. At that time itself, the believers and even Sanskrit scholars clarified that it was gross misinterpretation of Vedas. But none cared. Now, the historians have retracted, but the books remain containing such unhistorical writings. So how can their premises, their methods of enquiry, and their formulations be dissimilar?

You say, “When historians speak of the historicity of person, place, or event, they require evidence — singular or plural — that proves the existence of any of these and this evidence is based on data relating to space and time. The two important spaces in the Valmiki Ramayana are Ayodhya and Lanka, on the location of which scholarly opinion differs”. Yes, what are those “scholarly opinions”? An opinion is nothing but belief or faith only as their views is estimated depending upon their attitudes and outlook.

What you say about the foot print of Mohammed kept in Jama Masjid or the hair kept in a Kashmir mosque? Have you ever recommended for chemical analysis or DNA test? Have historians ever tried their scientific methodology? Where has gone their scientific temper? You claim, “It is said that the Ram Setu is cultural heritage and therefore cannot be destroyed even if it is a natural geological formation and not man-made. Has the idea become the heritage? To search for a non-existent man-made structure takes away from the imaginative leap of a fantasy and denies the fascinating layering of folk-lore”. When H. D. Sankalia [1972:46] asserted that there were no evidences for Asoka, Chandragupta Maurya etc., as no horizontal excavations had been done, historians did not worry and search for Asoka or Chandragupta. When Vincent Smith [1990:231-267] wrote that Asoka killed his brothers etc., you also repeated the song in your book [1963:20-54]. Accepting Kalhana as historian, you ignored the Asoka, as he recorded. So why can’t deny this Asoka and accept the Asoka of Kalhana? It is only “the majority idea / opinion / faith” that only this Asoka could be “Mauryan Asoka” in spite of lacking historical evidences, created and established one Asoka! So even existed person was consigned to imaginary leap of fantasy and made fable!

Even after the so-called “authorized / critical edition” [Vol I-1960, II-1962, III-1963, IV-1965, V-1966, VI-1971], the mention of different Ramayanas is irrelevant, immaterial and incompetent.

As a historian, it is surprising that you have lied to the whole world like this:  “This does not happen with the biographies of those who were known to be historical figures and who founded belief systems: the Buddha, Jesus Christ, Mohammad. Their biographies adhere largely to a single story-line and this helps to endorse the ‘official’ narrative of their life. Their existence is recorded in other sources as well that are not just narratives of their lives but have diverse associations. The historicity of the Buddha, for example, is established, among other things, by the fact that a couple of centuries after he died, the emperor Ashoka on a visit to Lumbini had a pillar erected to commemorate the Buddha’s place of birth. This is recorded in an inscription on the pillar”.

6      This does not happen with the biographies of those who were known to be historical figures and who founded belief systems: the Buddha, Jesus Christ, Mohammad.

It is well known that there are no biographies of Buddha, Jesus Christ and Mohammed as you asserted. This is blatant lie. Give me references of such biographies. What was written after such existed or non-existed personalities after them perhaps even after 300 years cannot be a biography. About different Buddhas, I am surprised that you say nothing is there. You do not remember how a Buddha had to come to fight with Adi Sankara? Moreover, it is well known about the different versions of Jesus, Christs etc., even before and after the so-called Jesus Christ combine. About Mohammed, I am also afraid of giving details just like you. Any way, just I tell there are books – M. Cook [1983:65], P. Crone [1987:75-76], Ibn Warraq [1995:66-85].

6      Their biographies adhere largely to a single story-line and this helps to endorse the ‘official’ narrative of their life.

Why they should largely adhere to a single line? How this helps “official” narrative? How “official” it could be of “their life”? Why can’t you write as a historian instead of believer here?

That the “biographers” were compelled or forced to accept or adhere to a single line proves that many lines were left out. And still small number of biographers who did not adhere to a single line is also exposed. Then, what you are talking about? Majority view and minority view? Condemn the “lesser” and accept or approve the Larger”! Adhere to one-line and forget many lines! What sort of historian you are? That man Karunanidhi has become a senile man and talks differently. Do you also do the same think as a senile lady?

How you endorse such one-liners? Is there any historical methodology to that effect? Which University teaches such approving of one-line biography by eminent historians like you?

Do not fool Indians. Ernest Renan, J. M. Robertson and so many reputed authorities are there on the subject matter of Jesus Christ and Christianity. Any way, it is your cowardice gets exposed, as you never whispered anything, when there was much Christian opposition to screening of “Da Vinci Code”. However, when the so-called “Hindutva judgment” came out, you vociferously jumped and asserted that “We would go to Court”. Everything appeared in “the Hindu” itself with your face. Madam, what happened? But now you come siding with atheists, anti-Hindus, anti-nationals as a historian suppressing the recent past and forgetting your own past!

6      Their existence is recorded in other sources as well that are not just narratives of their lives but have diverse associations.

So also Rama.

Why then your argument goes differently.

In fact, their associations differ. But, Ramayana core story, as H. D. Sankalia in his “Ramayana Myth or Reality” that it had been there nearly for 3000 years [1972:62].

How “That their existences is recorded in other sources” help you to decide?

It may be noted that historians and scholars have pointed out that Christ story was copied from
Krishna! Rama was repeatedly mentioned in different literature not because of variance, but influence and impact created on the people well before 2500-3000 YBP. Was the Sangam poet a fool to record in his poem about his discussion with his army about the mode of crossing over the ocean to Lanka”. How that poet was imaging that that Lanka should have been the Lanka of Ramayana in his times i.e, 2500 – 3000 YBP?

6      The historicity of the Buddha, for example, is established, among other things, by the fact that a couple of centuries after he died, the emperor Ashoka on a visit to Lumbini had a pillar erected to commemorate the Buddha’s place of birth. This is recorded in an inscription on the pillar

Recently, there has been lot of information coming out as to how the British historians including the ASI officials, specifically Alois Anton Furher had fabricated the Stone Casket with Asokan inscriptions and planted there. For his forgey, he was dismissed from the service. The sudden disappearance of Buhler also intriguing in the context. For more details see: http://www.lumkap.org.uk . note now also the ASI officials are in a soup!

6      “From the point of view of archaeology and history, the Archaeological Survey of
India was correct in stating that there is to date no evidence to conclusively prove the historicity of Rama. The annulling of this statement was also a political act. Reliably proven evidence is of the utmost significance to history but not so to faith”.

The present ASI officials are not like A. A. Fuherer to fabricate or forge Asokan inscriptions or like John Marshall to suppress the ASI report of Banrejee. They could have verified the greatest Indian archaeologist view in their affidavit. But, evidently, being the stooges of politicians, as politicians they acted ad they would get the sack, unless they are innocent or have guts to expose the politicians, who ordered them to do so. Leave alone the ASI people. The ASGCS / other standing councils who drafted the affidavit, vetted the affidavits etc.., also are responsible. Therefore, if all acted as a gang to malign and blaspheme Rama, it is not history but mystery. And do not you think that such culprits should be punished?

6      Blasphemy does not lie in doubting historicity.

Yes, Romila you doubt the historicity of others also as listed – Buddha, Jesus Christ, Mohammed – Do not be contended with one-line official version. You are a historian. You should go by primary sources – historical documents. Nothing more, nothing less!

To what extent you can doubt the historicity of them along with Rama or otherwise, we are going to see. Or children will wait and see!

Of course the question of blasphemy, who will decide? The Courts? Let us see!

6      The historian is not required to pronounce on the legitimacy of faith. But the historian can try and explain the historical context to why, in a particular space and time, a particular faith acquires support. And we need to remind ourselves that our heritage has been constantly enriched not just by those of faith but also by those who contend with faith.

Yes, you know very well if you start analyzing with the legitimacy of faith of – Buddha, Jesus Christ, Mohammed.

So you decide which faith has to be supported in a particular space in time?

Accordingly, it is evident that you do not support the faith of Rama.

Yes, Rama baktas have been living with content even after what you historians have done in the case of Ramajanmabhumi issue.

Of course, they may not be knowing what your people have been doing in the Indian History Congress presenting papers taking Ayodhya to Afganisthan etc. Note that even in
Calicut, during last IHC, you have to live on Rama just like Karyu. The lady who got selected as GS said some thing on Rama! Poor Rama-baktas kept quite.

6      If there is a strong faith — in the religious sense — among millions of people, then it does not require to be protected through massive demonstrations and the killing of innocent persons, through political mobilisation. Nor do archaeology and history have to be brought in to keep that faith intact. Faith finds its own place and function, as do archaeology and history. And the place and function of each is separate.

Yeah, oh woman, you do not know how many Ramabaktas were burned and killed. You want Rama-baktas to forget everything. But try to interpret mischievously, what happened to the three in Bangalore. Note, it is because of Karu, that happened. Fighting with Karnataka, he earned enormous enmity with Kannadigas. And this man used to come there and say as he used to go to Gopalapuram and Oliver Road

. So not vulgarize the issue with your perversity. Do not suppress the facts.

The honesty of archeologists and historians, only Indians have to certify.

6      To say that the partial removal of an underwater formation in the Palk Straits is going to hurt the faith of millions is not giving faith its due. Is faith so fragile that it requires the support of an underwater geological formation believed to have been constructed by a deity?

You can blast Bamian Buddhas, you can destroy IVC. Like Aurangazeb you can go on demolish temples. Like Dr. F.J A. Flynn, you can smuggle artifacts and coins. Your historians and archaeologists aid and abet. But he would be caught red-handed in
Delhi airport. So demolish Rama-sethu! Yes, nothing will happen or happens.

6      Making faith into a political issue in order to win elections is surely offensive to faith?

Karu is doing that. Cong is coding that. None else links it with politics.

6      What is at issue is not whether Rama existed or not, or whether the underwater formation or a part of it was originally a bridge constructed at his behest. What is at issue is a different and crucial set of questions that require neither faith nor archaeology but require intelligent expertise: questions that are being willfully (sic) diverted by bringing in faith. Will the removal of a part of the natural formation eventually cause immense ecological damage and leave the coasts of south India and Sri Lanka open to catastrophes, to potential tsunamis in the future? Or can it be so planned that such a potentiality is avoided?

Scientists have discussed enough. I do not think you have ay competency here.

6      What would be the economic benefits of such a scheme in enhancing communication and exchange? Would the benefits reach out to local communities and if so, how? Equally important, one would like to know precisely what role will be played by the multinational corporations and their associates in
India. Who will finance and control the various segments of such an immense project? It is only when such details are made transparent that we will also get some clues to the subterranean activities that are doubtless already simmering. These are the questions that should be asked of this project and that at this point in time should be occupying public space.

Oh now, it is clear. You write like what Karu talked and talking. Do you have any alliance with Karu? The “Mount Road Maha Vishnu” has marriage alliance with Karu. You have connection with Ram. So also Karu, Kanimozhi and Ramajayam with “The Hindu”. So what is the alliance. At whose behest, you are writing and talking the language of Karunanidhi?

Any way thank you for exposing yourself.

Thank you for revealing that Karunanidhi, Congress, you and others are doing this only for election.

VEDAPRAKASH

(29-09-2007)

57, Poonamalle High Road,

Maduravoyal, Chennai – 602 102.

letters@thehindu.co.in, vedamvedaprakash@yahoo.com

To

The Editor,

The Hindu,

Mount Road,

Chennai – 600 002.