Posts Tagged ‘untouchability’

3000 Hindus converting to Islam in Coimbatore: A Communal drama, strategic plan or politicized agenda? [2]  

March 8, 2020

3000 Hindus converting to Islam in Coimbatore: A Communal drama, strategic plan or politicized agenda? [2]

Nagai Tiruvalluvan, Bagavi nexus Dec.2019

He is the Nagai Thiruvalluvan having nexus with Mohammedans and trying to induce SC Hindus to get converted to Islam with agenda.

Ilaveni respecting Palani Baba tomb-1

Worshipping, respecting and garlanding tombs are halal / forbidden in fundamentalist Islam, yet, Thoruvalluvan does and the Mohammedans keep quite!

Whether they converted or not?: Alleging threat by police, a recent convert Raiz, previously Ravichandran, said, “Those who are converting legally are being threatened by the police[1]. As a result, there are people who can’t talk about the conversion openly.” There are some people who shy away from their conversions fearing authorities[2]. But the youth of the area seem to be more vocal and don’t pay heed to still being called by their caste names.” However, this move by the Dalit outfit has angered a section of the villagers. They claim that only a handful of them, belonging to the Dalit outfit, have converted and are spreading rumours that thousands are converting[3]. Eashwaran, a resident of Mettupalayam said, “They have linked the 17 deaths to Islam conversion[4]. They said 3000 will convert. Residents of this particular locality are like one big family. We are not planning to convert to another religion. They (Tamil Puligal Katchi outfit) are spreading wrong news[5]. “We believe in Lord Vishnu. We will never convert to any religion. All people here are like my family. No one here will convert,” added Kannama, another resident. Thus, suddenly, conflicting reports are also coming. So what happened, whether SCs converted or not?

Thiruvalluvan arrested, Muslim speaker
Converted Muslim asked BC (Backward Class) certificate [August 2019]: Pointing out that neither during his conversion to Islam, nor during the publication of his conversion in the Tamil Nadu Government Gazette, he has mentioned anything regarding the sub-sect Labbai, the Madras high court dismissed a petition filed by a person seeking a direction to the Tahsildar, Thirukkazhukundram, Kancheepuram district, to issue Community Certificate to him, his wife and his children as BC (Backward Class) Muslim Labbai[6]. Dismissing the petition filed by Rilvan, a division bench comprising Justices R. Subbiah and C. Saravanan said initially at the time of conversion into Islam, the petitioner did not particularly mention about the sub-sect “Labbai”, which dis-entitles him from claiming the relief of issuance of community certificate to the petitioner and his family, more particularly, in the Jammath, he did not mention his sub-sect while conversion to Islam.

Thiruvalluvan arrested, Muslim speaker alur nawas

Chettiyar marrying SC and converting to Muslim lebbai [August 2019]: According to the petitioner, he is a Hindu by birth and originally belonged to BC 24 Manai Telugu Chettiyar Community. His marriage was solemnised with his wife Ramjiya, whose original name is Ramya, who belongs to Scheduled Caste (SC) Hindu Adi Dravida Community and due to their wedlock, two children were born to them, namely Harshat (previous name Kavin Raji) aged about 13 years and Harshidha, aged about 4 years. On October 15, 2012, out of his own volition, the petitioner got converted to Muslim Labbai religion from the Hindu religion. After conversion, he was blessed with the second child. Subsequently, on March 23, 2016, he had published his religious conversion in the Official Gazette. On March 28, 2018, he applied for issuance of community certificate to the Tahsildar and he sought the Tahsildar to issue BC community certificate as per a G.O dated July 29, 2008. But the authorities denied the same on the ground that they could issue only as converted Muslim. Subsequently, the Revenue Divisional Officer also rejected his representation. Hence, he filed the present petition.

Thiruvalluvan arrested, Muslim speaker jawahirulla
Court cannot order to give any certificate for caste or class: The bench said the petitioner got converted to Muslim religion on October 15, 2012, with sub-sect Labbai. Neither during the conversion to Islam nor during the publication of his conversion in the Tamil Nadu Government Gazette, he has mentioned anything regarding the sub-sect Labbai. Even in the certificate given by Pudupattinam Zamath, there was no mention of the sub-sect Labbai. Hence, the petitioner will not be entitled to Backward Class Community Certificate merely on conversion, the bench added. The bench said only if there was an endorsement by the Jamath indicating the Backward Class as Labbai, the community certificate can be issued by mentioning the said sub-sect. In the absence of such endorsement by the Jamath, the authorities cannot issue community certificate as sought for by the petitioner. Though the petitioner relies on G.O dated July 29, 2008, stating that Hindu BC community can convert to any of the seven sects of Islam as mentioned therein in the list, in which Labbai was one among them, in the absence of specific sub-sect during the conversion to Islam, he has to be treated as Muslim which comes under the Forward community. Even during the enquiry conducted by the Revenue Inspector, Nerumbur on his petition to RDO, the petitioner simply stated that his family embraced Muslim religion and that they changed their names as Muslim names, even though they published their names in the government gazette. “Hence, for the above reasons, now this court cannot give such a direction prayed for by the petitioner,” the bench added.

Thiruvalluvan arrested, DK speaker Covai RK

If SC certificate were cancelled, a Muslim can become BC!: Dr. Raja Mohammed (Reg.No.00102119) belonged to Muslim Labbai included in the list of BC-M on his conversion from Hindu to Muslim. According to clarification received from the Government, in the absence of any orders issued by the Government in respect of converts from Hindu to Islam, they would be considered as “Others”.  He was SC and after conversion, he became lebbai. The Tahsildar issued a conversion certificate and also community certificate, declaring him to be a member of Backward Class. The community certificate, showing his community, as Scheduled Caste, was cancelled. The court decided that he was BC only, as the SC certificate was cancelled[7]. So the SC converted Mohammedan has two options for reservations – as a lebbai, he can get the 3.5% of reservation within reservation policy introduced by Karunanidhi or they can claim BC by cancelling the SC / Lebbai certificate, yet claiming to be a Muslim!

SC threat to convert to Islam, Coimbatoe-praying

This photo published by Deccan Chronicle proves as to how the secular police stand to facilitate the Mohammedans to encroach the public platform and roads!

Jamath issues Lebbai caste or Backward class certificate?: First of the intriguing fact has been how Jamat can issue a certificate for the SC convert Mohammedan and it could be equated with the SC or untouchable. The Mohammedan law does not have such authority and therefore, the TN Muslims stand and issuance of such certificate is unconstitutional. Moreover, the court has rightly noted, “Neither during the conversion to Islam, nor during the publication of his conversion in the Tamil Nadu Government Gazette, he has mentioned anything regarding the sub-sect Labbai. Even in the certificate given by Pudupattinam Zamath, there was no mention of the sub-sect Labbai. Hence, the petitioner will not be entitled to Backward Class Community Certificate merely on conversion.” The churches have been issuing birth, baptism, marriage and death certificates and not caste or class certificates. Had it been there so, for converted SC issue, they would not go to Supreme Court. Of course, though, Muslims used to claim, but, they never pursued legally, as it might go against the fundaments of Islam. Of course, the elite and rich categories never want such reservation, as it would affect their interests.

© Vedaprakash

08-03-2020

Ilaveni respecting Palani Baba tomb-2

Worshipping, respecting and garlanding tombs are halal / forbidden in fundamentalist Islam, yet, Thoruvalluvan does and the Mohammedans keep quite!

[1] News.18, Over 400 Dalits Converted to Islam Since Collapse of ‘Caste Wall’ Claimed 17 Lives, Says Tamil Nadu Outfit, Poornima Murali | CNN-News18Updated: February 14, 2020, 8:02 PM IST.

[2] https://www.news18.com/news/india/over-400-dalits-converted-to-islam-since-caste-wall-claimed-17-lives-says-tamil-nadu-outfit-2501325.html

[3] With inputs from S Annette Beryl Elizabeth. News.18, Over 400 Dalits Converted to Islam Since Collapse of ‘Caste Wall’ Claimed 17 Lives, Says Tamil Nadu Outfit, Poornima Murali | CNN-News18Updated: February 14, 2020, 8:02 PM IST

[4] Times Now,  ‘Discriminated, treated like animals’: Over 400 Dalits convert to Islam in Tamil Nadu; 3000 in queue, India DigitalTimes Now DigitalUpdated Feb 13, 2020 | 11:54 IST.

[5] https://www.timesnownews.com/india/article/discriminated-treated-like-animals-over-400-dalits-convert-to-islam-in-tamil-nadu-3000-in-queue/552920

[6] Deccan Chrocicle, Chennai: No BC certificate for mere conversion, Published Aug 31, 2019, 2:28 am IST; Updated. Aug 31, 2019, 2:28 am IST.

https://www.deccanchronicle.com/nation/current-affairs/310819/chennai-no-bc-certificate-for-mere-conversion.html

[7] Madras High Court- M.Raja Mohammed vs Tamil Nadu Public Service … on 20 January, 2011

IN THE HIGH COURT OF JUDICATURE AT MADRAS, DATED: 20 .01.2011 – CORAM: THE HONOURABLE MR.JUSTICE VINOD K.SHARMA, W.P. No.21864 of 2010 and M.P.No.1 of 2010

M.Raja Mohammed .. Petitioner. Vs. 1. Tamil Nadu Public Service Commission, Rep. by its Chairman, Chennai-600 006 and 2. Government of Tamil Nadu, Rep. by its Secretary, Department of Animal Husbandary Fort St.George, Chennai 600 009. .. Respondents. https://indiankanoon.org/doc/122359/

Divine scandal, Theological corruption and religious perversity orUntouchable Gods and Untouchables!

July 16, 2009

Divine scandal, Theological corruption and religious perversity orUntouchable Gods and Untouchables!

Untouchable Gods” and “touchable dual-believers”: As Indians, we have heard enough about “untouchables”, but have we ever heard about “Untouchable Gods”? No, not at all. But, it appears that the Christians and Muslims are trying to bring such “Untouchable Gods” in India.  The Christians teach Indians that Christian God could be three or one or one-in-three and so on, but the Muslims have been persisting upon the one, the only-one not more or not less!

The Christian God or Jesus Christ could be in different colours but Allah cannot be with any colour. Even, that God may appear according to White white, Black black, Brown brown and so on. But Allah is colourless. Again God can be any racial, ethnic and ideological, but Allah cannot be so! So the Partnership of Christian-Muslim combine gives a “dual” or “untouchable” nature of their Gods! However, they want to in theological company to do divine business of being-together.

They claim about their wonderful concept of eating together to advocate “toucbability”, but a Hindu woman would be removed from service wearing a nose-ring, as it could bring microbes! A priest or pastor can lick and give and believers can take, no microbes nothing. Unseen cannot do anything in such cases! Thus, we have suddenly overt-covert, explicit-implicit, open-covered, barren-hidden, naked-covered categories of “dual-believers” with “Untouchable Gods”. Their Gods are “Untouchable Gods”, “Unseen Gods”, “Unheard Gods”, “Unspeaking Gods” and “Untastable Gods”, because, they are beyond the perception of senses of man! Moreover, they openly believe that their Gods cannot help in getting reservation for the potential dalit-converts., but Supreme Court can do. Thus, we are caught between “Untouchable Gods” and “touchable dual-believers”!

Secret converts believers with hidden faith: Can a real convert have any secrecy maintained about his conversion? Having turned his mind away from the Old God to New God, how can he turn again this-side and that-side? What type of “turning” it is?

Believers with hidden faith! My God, the faith has to be hidden in mind to hold his God tight. Otherwise, he has to cry, “Oh God, Oh God, why you have forsaken me”. Immediately, the Christian partner, Muslim would jump and declare, see, your God is praying to our God only! “Eli, Eli” according to Muslim is Eli-Ela-Elahi-Elohim-Alaha-Allah and so on! Anyway, we need not worry about Eli or Allah or Christ, let them decide.

The usage of expression “Secret converts” appears to be a fraudulent one, as the so-called converts have no guts to believe either the abandoned God or embraced God. Actually, the converting Christians should feel shame about their useless and disgracing act.

V     Why then they convert and fool the weak-converts, who do not have any mental strength in godly-affairs?

V     God and religion requires conviction, confidence and belief.

V     If the converters and converts do not have such qualities, it is not only dishonor and scandal, but also cheating the God himself.

V     Can any sensible and matured believer or pious one accept such divine scandal, theological corruption and religious perversity?

Western-funded congregations: Let the poor or anybody turn to Mary, Jehovah, Allah or anybody, it does not matter in the globalization of industry and business. But it is ironical, farce and mockery to talk about western funded congregations. To claim that, “This allows them to seek opportunities beyond government sector in the booming information-technology and services industries that put a premium on the westernized outlook and English-language skills”, is again deceptive. The westernized outlook has only corrupted the Indian system, as we see so many ladies going astray.

Z    Otherwise, why a Muslim Liyakat Ali Khan should stoop down to Cyber-sex with all his IT-expertise?

Z    Why the Christian Yacob Saravanan be after so many shady women with the corrupted money, that too, swindled in the name of God.

Z    Does the western-funded congregations offer such sexy-opportunities backed with IT?

Playing double-game to fool two Gods: If the cited case of Venkatesh Gunti is a fact then that person must have been cheater of two Gods. Ironically, he proves that the new embraced or believed God is useless.

N     It is not understand why he should bastardize his conscience to be with two-congregations?

N     Why western-funded congregations failed?

N     Is it not a gambler or smuggler or criminal using two or more passports to go around and fool all?

N     Why such sinning crooks, wicked frauds and evil villains should be encouraged in the name of God and religion?

The new twist given to Conversion frauds: If a person echoes hiding his Christian faith, “The government is forcing us to lie”, what sort of Christian is he? Shame, instead of that, he can be kicked out of Christianity by a true Christian. This type of theological frauds, double-cross cross-bearers can cross anybody at any time. It is a great sin to blaspheme the Christ crucified on the cross, if at all, a Christian believes in the Christ or God. That he is maintaining “double-life” is gross manipulation of religion and he is not all religious then. His pleading or blurting out “Whatever the consequences, God will take care of us”! Which God would take care of him? The past God, present God or future God? What nonsense is it? Who is making him to lie to the government, to the God and to himself?

If the Christian God or Islamic God cannot do how Indian Supreme Court can do? Paradoxically, it is mentioned repeatedly that it has been petitioned to Supreme Court, it is currently reviewing several challenges filed by Christian and Muslim Dalits etc. , shows the super-duping theological fraud.

6      How the Supreme Court could be superior that Christian or Islamic God?

6      When the Gods, with whom the new converts or secret converts or covert-coverts rely upon, pray him openly or secretly, or at least believe him staunchly, why that the Christian and Muslim leaders go on approach the Court and Parliament with political pressure instead of God-power?

6      They unashamedly and immorally prove that the Political Power is superior to the God-power. As otherwise, the leaders who talk nonsense or fool all with all their sermons etc., must quit their bogus-life and die on the Cross!

Religious frauds depend on frauds only: Yes, the cat is out again! “Indian groups have tried for decades to win a similar exception for Christianity, which is believed to have arrived in India when St. Thomas disembarked in Kerala in the first century”. When they could not believe the Gods, why then they believe that some thing came to India exactly in the first century and so on? How that it exactly disembarked embarking everything? And it should choose only Kerala? Excellent! Already we have seen a gang of frauds – Ganesh Iyer alias Acharya Paul etc., colluded with Arulappa, Deivanayagam etc., in the case of “St. Thomas fraud”. Arulappa and Acharya Paul had been fooling with Retzinger and successful in appraising the then Pope also about their wonderful fraudulent research carried out in Tamilnadu! Shame, these guys do not bother about the High Court proceedings etc., as they perhaps, only believe in Supreme Court. They do not worry about “the Day of Judgment of God”, but in the “judgment of man”.

The Dalits – the main source of potential converts! Wonderful, at lest, they have confessed that they dealing with “Dalits” only as commodities and not as human beings! After all, they talk in globalization terminology, western-funded congregations, booming information-technology and services industries, premium on the westernized outlook and English-language skills. What more is required for the “Dalits” to be rated, treated and traded? Vey potential in deed and that too the main source, so that they can become the main source of potential converts. After assessing, considering or branding them so, why they worry about their double-life, double-act, double-cross etc?

Partnership in outsourcing – Joseph D’Souza and P. K. Ahmad Sabir: After all the globalization, westernization and industrialization have to work with God also. When God can be sold through cyber-space, why not through Supreme Court or Parliament? Definitely, the useless Gods, in the sense, as the Court and man-made law are believed, could be sold out and the main source of potentiality could be concentrated. After all these “Dalits”: have to be in a state of “duality” as has been confessed by the Christian and Muslim authorities. If they win in the Court, they can be Christians or Muslims overtly or covertly Hindus or vice versa. If they loose, no problem, as stated! So it is a game of “head or tail, we win game”. Let them play, the partnership. Only thing is the poor “Dalits” have to be outsourced to outreach!

Appeal to Westerners, Western media and Western Intellectuals: It is requested that the westerners, western media and western intellectuals be objective to the Indian issues and present the facts correctly without any bias, prejudice or pee-determined mind-setup. Try to respect the feelings of the others also. By mere propaganda or sheer media-power or absolute-influence do not try to overwhelm and overpower Indians with muscle-twisting theology or ideological religiosity. We know you can make Jesus Christ to come with AK-47 or any advanced machinery, as the missionary is ready with “liberation theology”. And of course, your Partnership may wage crusade-jihads for which the gullible, naïve and innocent Hindus are no match. Do not exploit SCs / Harijans etc., by calling “Dalits” or converting poetically as you proudly announce. If you bully Supreme Court with international power, then, what type of judiciary, we can expect? If you intimidate Indians with your economic threats, terrorize with fiscal sanctions, oppress with financial controls and suppress by all means, who are oppressed and suppressed? Do not make mockery of theorization with ideological and verbal terrorism. If you want Super Gods, Superlative Gods, Supreme Gods, please have them, but do not suppress and oppress with such Gods. Do not make our Gods oppressed and suppressed! Be honest and satisfied with your jealous, aggressive and envious Gods and we are happy with our “DALIT GODS”.

\   With such “DALIT GODS”, we continue to live as “DALIT INDIANS” and “DALIT BEILEVERS” with self-respect and honour, but we would not be “dual-believers” or “believes with hidden faith”.

\   As Swami Vivekananda proclaimed, we declare our religion and faith on our foreheads, in ears and noses.

\   Yes, every limb, blood, nerve, cell, DNA etc., would live and die with open belief – exhibited in stones and trees, hills and mountains, rivers and oceans and of course – men and animals, monkeys and elephants.

\   Do not worry about our idolatry, but try to cleanse your mind.

\   We are proud of our religion in consistent with nature – living and non-living. Be satisfied with your “theological-haves” and do not worry about our “theological-have-nots”!

This with reference to several articles appearing in internet, as my attention has een drawn my attention to them:

The Untouchables In India, ‘Untouchables” convert to Christianity – and face extra bias Yaroslav Trofimov The Wall Street Journal online

September 19, 2007

Dalits Situations in
India
Mukul Sharma Heinrich Boll Foundation
DAlits get ready for class-caste war Runko Rashidi (Posted by, as claimed) Indiainteracts
O Rama, oh Rama, You became the God and we the demons Iniyan Elango Ibid.

My responses are appearing in the site.

VEDAPRAKASH

21-09-2007.